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General discussion (archive)Laptop advice(23 posts)(23 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted December 10, 2013
Alright, so I may need a laptop. Currently, my eyes are clasped on a Levono ThinkPad Edge 530C (specs here). Your job is to talk me out of this and suggest a better alternative within the following criteria:

- I absolutely will not spend more than 600 euros on it, and would appreciate prices lower than that.
- 14" - 15.6" display.
- Windows 7, preferably. 8 is not a deal-breaker, but I can't see the point either.
- This will be my backup/study/travel PC, so performance is not terribly important. The worst you can expect it to handle is about a billion .pdf's open simultaneously. I've already got a PC for gaming, so I can give this poor thing a break.
- I would quite like an optical drive. It's optional, but there we go.
- A 24-month warranty at the very least.
- Because of warranty reasons, it must also be available in Finland, but I can check that out easily, so don't worry too much about that.

So at the time being, I'm looking at the aforementioned model in a Finnish online store for 570 euros, with a three-year warranty thrown in. If you've got something else in mind, do say so. It's been nearly four years since I last owned a laptop and I really don't know what I should be looking for exactly, so do go ahead and shoot that thing down if you must.

Anyone with valid advice of any sort will also enter a draw for Cities in Motion (GamersGate, DRM-free). I've got one code for the PC and another for the Mac, and though I'm not sure if GamersGate codes expire or not, I'm pretty sure they both work. Please specify if you want the Mac version, otherwise I'll assume you're going for the PC one.

EDIT: Oh, and thank you, by the way.
Post edited December 10, 2013 by AlKim
Posted December 10, 2013
I'm not in for the giveaway.

If gaming capability (ie. the graphics chipset power) is of no concern, and you are looking for the cheaper laptops (well under 600€)... then IMHO it doesn't really matter which one you get. Any will do which roughly fits your criteria (including the warranty), it is not like the selection will be wildly variating in the cheap generic non-gaming laptop category. It is made of cheap materials anyway, no matter if it is Acer, ASUS, HP, Lenovo... costing around 500€.

Except one thing: have you considered buying a refurbished (used) corporate laptop? There are some companies which sell older corporate laptops. If I was looking for something like that (a 550€ non-gaming laptop), I would probably look for some used Lenovo T-series laptops. The corporate versions which used to cost an arm and a leg when they were new.

Then again, I don't think they get extended warranties (probably just 12 month warranty), if that is very important to you. But I feel they may still outlast a new cheapo 500€ laptop, they are just made of better materials and made more durable. And those older T-series Lenovos have very good keyboards, better than the modern chiclet-type keyboards, especially on new cheapo laptops.

And you are more likely to find a refurbished laptop with Windows 7, if that matters to you.

For instance: http://www.kannettavatietokone.fi/Kannettavat%20k%C3%A4ytetyt/Lenovo/KAYT15054.html

That's a very nice used corporate laptop, and with a kickass keyboard (assuming it is a similar keyboard as on my T400 that I still use actively). You can also buy an extra year of warranty for that (+89€) totalling two years warranty, but then the price goes little bit over 600€. But there are cheaper models too there.

http://www.kannettavatietokone.fi/pikahaku.html?q=tier1%2B
Post edited December 10, 2013 by timppu
Posted December 10, 2013
Hi,

Do you really need a big 15" screen laptop? If I had a gaming PC already, I would personally go for a more portable laptop, with a 13" screen for example. But prices may be higher for those in general.

Also I think maybe you are limiting your choices too much with Windows 7. You say you don't see the point with Windows 8, but I presume the better deals would be with Windows 8 (or is it 8.1?) now.

Not in.
Posted December 10, 2013
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AlKim: Alright, so I may need a laptop. Currently, my eyes are clasped on a Levono ThinkPad Edge 530C (specs here). Your job is to talk me out of this and suggest a better alternative within the following criteria:

- I absolutely will not spend more than 600 euros on it, and would appreciate prices lower than that.
- 14" - 15.6" display.
- Windows 7, preferably. 8 is not a deal-breaker, but I can't see the point either.
- This will be my backup/study/travel PC, so performance is not terribly important. The worst you can expect it to handle is about a billion .pdf's open simultaneously. I've already got a PC for gaming, so I can give this poor thing a break.
- I would quite like an optical drive. It's optional, but there we go.
- A 24-month warranty at the very least.
- Because of warranty reasons, it must also be available in Finland, but I can check that out easily, so don't worry too much about that.

So at the time being, I'm looking at the aforementioned model in a Finnish online store for 570 euros, with a three-year warranty thrown in. If you've got something else in mind, do say so. It's been nearly four years since I last owned a laptop and I really don't know what I should be looking for exactly, so do go ahead and shoot that thing down if you must.

Anyone with valid advice of any sort will also enter a draw for Cities in Motion (GamersGate, DRM-free). I've got one code for the PC and another for the Mac, and though I'm not sure if GamersGate codes expire or not, I'm pretty sure they both work. Please specify if you want the Mac version, otherwise I'll assume you're going for the PC one.

EDIT: Oh, and thank you, by the way.
Intel HD 4000 - I have this and it's good
4GB RAM - Meh... I don't think this is enough RAM.
Intel Core i3 - Meh.... You should get a laptop with at least an i5...

In the USA, with 570 euro, you could buy a laptop with an i5 and 8GB RAM, easily but I understand that everything is more expensive in Finland...
Post edited December 10, 2013 by monkeydelarge
Posted December 10, 2013
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aymerict: Also I think maybe you are limiting your choices too much with Windows 7. You say you don't see the point with Windows 8, but I presume the better deals would be with Windows 8 (or is it 8.1?) now.
If he is going to buy a new laptop, the choices for Windows 7 are getting slimmer and slimmer. I think Windows 8.1 Pro includes the option to downgrade to Windows 7, but frankly I wouldn't do that. At least on some ASUS laptops people have had quite a lot of issues trying to downgrade to Windows 7, it seems ASUS doesn't really support the idea of installing Windows 7 on their laptops that come preloaded with Windows 8.x.

But used laptops generally come with Windows 7. But, Windows 8/8.1 is fine.
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AlKim: - This will be my backup/study/travel PC, so performance is not terribly important. The worst you can expect it to handle is about a billion .pdf's open simultaneously.
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monkeydelarge: Intel HD 4000 - I have this and it's good
4GB RAM - Meh... I don't think this is enough RAM.
Intel Core i3 - Meh.... You should get a laptop with at least an i5...
Well, I don't think viewing pdf documents is really that taxing... :)
Post edited December 10, 2013 by timppu
Posted December 10, 2013
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aymerict: Also I think maybe you are limiting your choices too much with Windows 7. You say you don't see the point with Windows 8, but I presume the better deals would be with Windows 8 (or is it 8.1?) now.
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timppu: If he is going to buy a new laptop, the choices for Windows 7 are getting slimmer and slimmer. I think Windows 8.1 Pro includes the option to downgrade to Windows 7, but frankly I wouldn't do that. At least on some ASUS laptops people have had quite a lot of issues trying to downgrade to Windows 7, it seems ASUS doesn't really support the idea of installing Windows 7 on their laptops that come preloaded with Windows 8.x.

But used laptops generally come with Windows 7. But, Windows 8/8.1 is fine.
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monkeydelarge: Intel HD 4000 - I have this and it's good
4GB RAM - Meh... I don't think this is enough RAM.
Intel Core i3 - Meh.... You should get a laptop with at least an i5...
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timppu: Well, I don't think viewing pdf documents is really that taxing... :)
Sooner or later, the games will call to him like beautiful sirens when he is traveling or just away from home.
Post edited December 10, 2013 by monkeydelarge
Posted December 10, 2013
Many budget laptop come with AMD APUs. It is not a bad choice in my opinion when on a budget. They seem to have better graphics performance than Intel HD cards.
Posted December 10, 2013
ASUS K55N or an equivalent in that range. I'm looking for something similar myself. Something cheap with an a10 and a 7640g or 7660g
Posted December 10, 2013
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timppu: *snip*
Oh yeah, I'm looking for a widescreen as well. Because the laptop will be used for studying, the ability to have a .pdf document and a text editor side-by-side is essential. I've tried it on another laptop - an ex-governmental T410, incidentally - and I just can't make it work in a way that I would perceive as satisfactory. The company that you suggested seems to offer some alternatives, though, and a quick glance indicates that there might be something within my criteria, so I'll have a better look when I've got the time. Thanks for that.

The +24-month warranty thing is because all electronics that aren't Nokia telephones and that spend significant amounts of time near me have a tendency to break, so I often have a price-per-warranty-year approach. It's not perfect, of course, but I would still rather go for a 570€ machine that's got 36 months of warranty rather than a 400€ one that's got 12 months of warranty and loads of encouraging talk backing it. Yes, I know that they are durable things and yes, that does tempt me somewhat, but I have ended up kicking myself for not going for the option that was 20% more expensive and had a 50% longer warranty far too often.
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aymerict: Do you really need a big 15" screen laptop? If I had a gaming PC already, I would personally go for a more portable laptop, with a 13" screen for example. But prices may be higher for those in general.

Also I think maybe you are limiting your choices too much with Windows 7. You say you don't see the point with Windows 8, but I presume the better deals would be with Windows 8 (or is it 8.1?) now.
There is practically no price difference between different sizes as far as I can tell. If I can lug a 13" laptop around, I think I can cope with a 15.6" one even if there is an increase in weight.

When it comes to the OS, I really don't know. It just comes across as a touchscreen-optimized OS to me, and few laptops in my price range come with touchscreens, making the USP moot. Besides, I get enough fingersprints all over my screen as it is and really don't want that bullshit from every device in the household. I'm not familiar with Win 8 to any degree though, so you can try to bring me round on that as well.
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monkeydelarge: In the USA, with 570 euro, you could buy a laptop with an i5 and 8GB RAM, easily but I understand that everything is more expensive in Finland...
Alas, yes. If I went for one or the other (and let's face it, it's going to be the i5), the other criteria would become rather difficult to meet.
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monkeydelarge: Sooner or later, the games will call to him like beautiful sirens when he is traveling or just away from home.
They will, I'm sure, but I've got plenty of games in my backlog that require no impressive hardware. Even if something doesn't work (i.e. doesn't play nice with Intel HD or whatever the hell AMD's equivalent is), I can play something else instead.
Posted December 10, 2013
Below is the model of laptop I got last October, it's much less than 600 euros (~$450 US dollars on Amazon, but it can be found cheaper) and I haven't found a game it won't run yet. It works great for now, but might not handle the "next generation" of games.

http://www.amazon.com/HP-2000-2d27dx-15-6-Laptop-Multiformat/dp/B00FXE9DI8/
Post edited December 10, 2013 by undeadcow
Posted December 11, 2013
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AlKim: Oh yeah, I'm looking for a widescreen as well. Because the laptop will be used for studying, the ability to have a .pdf document and a text editor side-by-side is essential. I've tried it on another laptop - an ex-governmental T410, incidentally - and I just can't make it work in a way that I would perceive as satisfactory.
Doesn't the T410 have a 16:10 "widescreen"? Ok so it is not true 16:9 widescreen, but selecting a new and cheapo 16:9 laptop instead usually just means that there are less pixels vertically (and even horizontally!). The T410 has a native resolution of 1440x900 (which is 16:10), while probably most if not all new sub-600€ laptops have a lower 1366x768 resolution (which is 16:9), including that cheapo Levono ThinkPad Edge 530C that you linked to in the first message.

So considering the T410 has a higher resolution both horizontally and vertically, I don't really see why reading two pdfs side by side should necessarily be harder on it, compared to a 1366x768 laptop, even if the latter may have physically a slightly wider screen.

Buuut, of course if you can find an even newer Lenovo T-series with a high resolution 16:9 screen, why not... Hopefully having a 16:9 resolution like 1600x900, or even 1920x1080.

And at least T400 runs older GOGs great (but it has some ATI/AMD graphics, not Intel-only). Even better than my newer ASUS G75VW gaming laptop, e.g. for Gorky 17.

Still Win7 vs Win8: consider that Win8 will have support longer. Oh and Netflix apparently works better in Win8 than Win7 (ie. there is a WinRT app for Netflix which supports the true Full-HD resolution, while using Win7 for Netflix locks you to 720p I think. In case you want to use Netflix at some point.
Post edited December 11, 2013 by timppu
Posted December 11, 2013
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AlKim: Oh yeah, I'm looking for a widescreen as well. Because the laptop will be used for studying, the ability to have a .pdf document and a text editor side-by-side is essential. I've tried it on another laptop - an ex-governmental T410, incidentally - and I just can't make it work in a way that I would perceive as satisfactory.
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timppu: Doesn't the T410 have a 16:10 "widescreen"?
1280 x 800. Must be a different version or an identically named older model, I suppose, because of course it's too simple when only CPU speeds, HDD's and RAM vary among models.

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timppu: Still Win7 vs Win8: consider that Win8 will have support longer. Oh and Netflix apparently works better in Win8 than Win7 (ie. there is a WinRT app for Netflix which supports the true Full-HD resolution, while using Win7 for Netflix locks you to 720p I think. In case you want to use Netflix at some point.
Well, considering that they are only now dropping support for the XP, I'm not too concerned about them discontinuing that of Win 7.
Posted December 11, 2013
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AlKim: Oh yeah, I'm looking for a widescreen as well. Because the laptop will be used for studying, the ability to have a .pdf document and a text editor side-by-side is essential. I've tried it on another laptop - an ex-governmental T410, incidentally - and I just can't make it work in a way that I would perceive as satisfactory.
avatar
timppu: Doesn't the T410 have a 16:10 "widescreen"? Ok so it is not true 16:9 widescreen, but selecting a new and cheapo 16:9 laptop instead usually just means that there are less pixels vertically (and even horizontally!). The T410 has a native resolution of 1440x900 (which is 16:10), while probably most if not all new sub-600€ laptops have a lower 1366x768 resolution (which is 16:9), including that cheapo Levono ThinkPad Edge 530C that you linked to in the first message.

So considering the T410 has a higher resolution both horizontally and vertically, I don't really see why reading two pdfs side by side should necessarily be harder on it, compared to a 1366x768 laptop, even if the latter may have physically a slightly wider screen.

Buuut, of course if you can find an even newer Lenovo T-series with a high resolution 16:9 screen, why not... Hopefully having a 16:9 resolution like 1600x900, or even 1920x1080.

And at least T400 runs older GOGs great (but it has some ATI/AMD graphics, not Intel-only). Even better than my newer ASUS G75VW gaming laptop, e.g. for Gorky 17.

Still Win7 vs Win8: consider that Win8 will have support longer. Oh and Netflix apparently works better in Win8 than Win7 (ie. there is a WinRT app for Netflix which supports the true Full-HD resolution, while using Win7 for Netflix locks you to 720p I think. In case you want to use Netflix at some point.
I recently bought a T500 (for about €200 on Ebay, including shipping from the US and toll), to replace a broken R500 (that I bought new). Both are among my favourites of the laptops I've used, perhaps the absolute top (the only newer-than-those ones I've used, though, are Apple and HP). With a 15.6" screen and resolution of 1680x1050 there's just enough space for two documents side-by-side (of course not quite a replacement for my tower's three monitors).

I'm running Arch Linux on mine, so I can't comment much on the Intel/Radeon switchable graphics (official AMD Linux drivers recent enough to support the function are too recent to support the GPU - the Windows drivers have had the function for years), the R500 didn't have Intel at all, but only Radeon (mine did, Intel-only was another configuration option).
Post edited December 11, 2013 by Maighstir
Posted December 11, 2013
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timppu: Doesn't the T410 have a 16:10 "widescreen"?
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AlKim: 1280 x 800. Must be a different version or an identically named older model, I suppose, because of course it's too simple when only CPU speeds, HDD's and RAM vary among models.
That is some different version then. The refurbished T410 that I linked to has 1440x900, the same as my trusty T400 with which I am writing this message. :)

I have certainly noticed though that IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads might have a bit different HW inside, even if the the model number was the same. Like having only Intel HD graphics, while some other version of the same model has some ATI/AMD graphics on top of it. And yeah, I recall some old IBM ThinkPad T40/T41 machines supporting different resolutions as well, some T40s having lower resolutions than some other T40s. Quite confusing, it would be simpler one model would mean only one configuration, at least when it comes to integral, non-swappable parts like the CPU, graphics chipset, supported resolutions etc.
Post edited December 11, 2013 by timppu
Posted December 11, 2013
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AlKim: 1280 x 800. Must be a different version or an identically named older model, I suppose, because of course it's too simple when only CPU speeds, HDD's and RAM vary among models.
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timppu: That is some different version then. The refurbished T410 that I linked to has 1440x900, the same as my trusty T400 with which I am writing this message. :)

I have certainly noticed though that IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads might have a bit different HW inside, even if the the model number was the same. Like having only Intel HD graphics, while some other version of the same model has some ATI/AMD graphics on top of it.
Yeah, the same model can come in a number of configurations, and often two different resolutions.

Lenovo did try to simplify it a bit by naming the model after its display size; the T/R500 and T/R400 were just renamed T/R61 but split into two different screen sizes (15.6" and 14.1", respectively - meaning, T61 could come in two sizes and a total of four resolutions).
Post edited December 11, 2013 by Maighstir
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General discussion (archive)Laptop advice(23 posts)(23 posts)
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