A corrupt member of a corrupt system run by corrupt people. What matters is the ratings, nothing more. Armstrong was a tool to the system, and so will the next "amazing" rider be, until they decide they need the publicity and make a scandal out of him, too.

LEt's focus on something more important.. like pondering what the 600th game on GOG will be. :p

Part of a larger problem, yes. But Lance exemplifies everything wrong with competition, sports and the American mindset. He's basically the king of cheating, with an utter lack of scruples.

Sport is all about money and fame without creating something, so I'm not surprised. This book about blood doping is very interesting, by the way.

Differently, the dirty way in which he was busted really led a lot of us to question the validity of it for quite a long time. Especially since the French have a reputation for disliking all things American lately.

That's not necessarily to say that people thought he was innocent, more that the process by which the evidence was collected and analyzed was so horribly botched that the proceedings had no credibility.

At this point, he's admitted to being the biggest cheat in sports history, so yeah, I doubt people are going to ever forgive him for it.

Isn't saying that illegal in your country ? :P

American? You make it sound like Lance is the only cyclist that was doping. Had he been clean it would have been practically the first time a tour winner wasn't doping. Yes, I know that's hyperbole, but I think pro-wrestling might be the only major sport with a worse record in that regards than cycling.
A broken clock is right twice a day. I'm not so sure they would have been so focused on it had he been something other than American.

Actually, it wasn't the fact that he was American, but that he was somewhat of the biggest asshole ever putting his ass on a bike. A friend of mine is a huge cycling fan (still, surprisingly) and he said that Armstrong was generally disliked by most bikers and the whole "cycling scene" because of his attitude and personality. (Eg. When you competing for the win and the closest competitor falls, it is customary to wait until he is back on the bike. Armstrong didn't do that, he drove on. Or that he only drove the Tour de France and not the other races).

Armstrong was probably seen more negatively than many others, but not because he was American, but because he was an asshole.

And on a personal sidenote: I only ever hear from Americans that the French don't like them. The French I met in my travels or that I know don't look especially bad upon Americans (most are actually very positive towards the US). The most common "target" of the French is and always will be England.

lol ...what ?

Psyringe gave a very comprehensive and convincing response to your concerns, which you seem to have ignored. And your posts are the only instance where I read about the French generally trying to discredit Americans. Your position does not appear terribly reasonable, considering these two points.

Did anyone read Nicole Cooke's retirement statement?
Very interesting read and also grips into the Lance Gate a bit.

[url=http://www.nicolecooke.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=130:nicoles-retirement-statement&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=18]Linkie[/url]

Yep, this is a pat of a big problem. Personally, I doubt that majority of high top sporters aren´t dopped. Olympic games are a big lie to me.

I didn't read every word of every post in this thread so forgive me if I step on someone's sentiment. Also forgive me for getting a tad personal at the end of this post.

The doping is manageable; you take away his accolades, strip his jerseys, cast him out and good ridence. I say that with a tear in my eye because in the late 90's living in St. Louis I was a big McGwire fan and I feel guilty about it because his name, along with all the other dopers in all the other sports (minus NASCAR!!! :P) need to be striken from the books and cast aside. The we can forget them and begin anew.

The problem with Lance is that there is nothing we can do to fix all of the lives he ruined and tried to ruin in his attempt to protect a lie. The instances of horrific name calling, countless lawsuits, and bullying he threw at people simply because they told the truth is unforgivable and unfortunatly taking away his medals is not going to help any of them, and that's what hurts most of all. Well almost most of all...

Personal time:
I had the same disease he had a few years after he got over it and started winning Tours. His spread to his brain, mine to my lungs. It would have spread to my brain had I actually had one but that's a different story for a different thread. While I never used him as a motivation to beat cancer (I used Mike Ditka, ask me about that some time) I met a lot of people in that cancer ward who totally held Lance aloft as a goal, a beacon, a light at the end of the tunnel for anyone with that shitty disease. You lied to those people Lance, and you didn't even need to. ANYONE that deals with that disease, regardless if they beat it or not, is a champion, but that wasn't good enough for you Lance. You had to taunt those fighting Cancer with dillusions of gradeur that somehow just dealing with the disease wasn't enough. "Follow me" you said. "Overcome this illness and become an icon...and lie cheat and steal every bit you need to in order to achieve it." How dare you Lance; and one more thing, FUCK YOU!

Does it matter that he was doping? Not really. So was every other elite level cyclist at the time. There was no 'unfair competitive advantage' gained because they were all juiced out of their minds.

What DOES matter is the lying. Remember, this is a man who has sued numerous people for publicly making claims that he has now admitted were true. How many people did he financially ruin? How many names did he unfairly taint?

A jock cheated, lied and bullied? No, I am not surprised.