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General discussion (archive)KKK take the moral high ground(101 posts)(101 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 31, 2011
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cjrgreen: No, the KKK always was and still is a terrorist organization. The most recent terrorist act for which Klansmen were caught and convicted was the 2006 beating of Jordan Gruver. There can be no toleration for the presence of the KKK among decent people; not even the First Amendment protects these sons of bitches.

The "Westboro Baptist Church", which is not a Baptist church at all, because no Baptist denomination recognizes it or recognizes "Pastor" Fred Phelps as an ordained minister, are mere blasphemers of the Holy Spirit; the best thing to do to counter them is to ignore them and leave their punishment to God.
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GameRager: 1. Nope. Not all clansmen do those sort of things, or advocate them.

2. Yes, it protects their rights to say what they want.....but not do what they want. I already said that before, that they can say what they want as long as they don't break any laws(and any such klansmen doing such acts could face jailtime and I would be all for it but it doesn't mean that the rest of their membership can'tm continue to speak freely.)

3. Did we really have to make this into a religious discussion?
No. Until every chapter of the Klan repudiates violence as a means of social domination, they are all tarred with the brush they made for themselves. To my knowledge, none have done so. I stand by my statement: the KKK is a domestic organization of terrorists.

All I was doing was commenting on the standing of the "Westboro Baptist Church" as a church, which it is not.
Post edited May 31, 2011 by cjrgreen
Posted May 31, 2011
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cjrgreen: No. Until every chapter of the Klan repudiates violence as a means of social control, they are all tarred with the brush they made for themselves. To my knowledge, none have done so.

All I was doing was commenting on the standing of the "Westboro Baptist Church" as a church, which it is not.
Still, what does that have to do with the klan members who don't do violent acts being able to speak freely or not? Just because SOME members of a group do such things doesn't mean every clan member should be arrested or barred from speaking freely.

2. Ok then...just don't want this to turn into yet another religious debate...and yeah you're right. They're about as much a "church" as the "church" of Scientology.
Posted May 31, 2011
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cjrgreen: No. Until every chapter of the Klan repudiates violence as a means of social control, they are all tarred with the brush they made for themselves. To my knowledge, none have done so.

All I was doing was commenting on the standing of the "Westboro Baptist Church" as a church, which it is not.
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GameRager: Still, what does that have to do with the klan members who don't do violent acts being able to speak freely or not? Just because SOME members of a group do such things doesn't mean every clan member should be arrested or barred from speaking freely.

2. Ok then...just don't want this to turn into yet another religious debate...and yeah you're right. They're about as much a "church" as the "church" of Scientology.
Even terrorists have the right to free speech -- until they abuse that right by inciting violence.
Posted May 31, 2011
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GameRager: Still, what does that have to do with the klan members who don't do violent acts being able to speak freely or not? Just because SOME members of a group do such things doesn't mean every clan member should be arrested or barred from speaking freely.

2. Ok then...just don't want this to turn into yet another religious debate...and yeah you're right. They're about as much a "church" as the "church" of Scientology.
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cjrgreen: Even terrorists have the right to free speech -- until they abuse that right by inciting violence.
Again, they're not terrorists just because some of them do violent acts/crimes......and if some do such acts it doesn't take the whole group's free speech rights away.

That'd be like some who claim that since SOME muslims act violently that we should hate/distrust/restrict ALL muslims.
Posted May 31, 2011
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cjrgreen: No. Until every chapter of the Klan repudiates violence as a means of social control, they are all tarred with the brush they made for themselves. To my knowledge, none have done so.

All I was doing was commenting on the standing of the "Westboro Baptist Church" as a church, which it is not.
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GameRager: Still, what does that have to do with the klan members who don't do violent acts being able to speak freely or not? Just because SOME members of a group do such things doesn't mean every clan member should be arrested or barred from speaking freely.

2. Ok then...just don't want this to turn into yet another religious debate...and yeah you're right. They're about as much a "church" as the "church" of Scientology.
I was going to rant at you about the legitimacy of scientology but couldn't fathom the effort to keep a straight face at my desk. Can't let my boss know. I'd lose my poker face, my po-poker face.
They only qualify as Baptist if they can pull off a killer Sunday lunch that walks the line of gluttony.
Posted May 31, 2011
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GameRager: Still, what does that have to do with the klan members who don't do violent acts being able to speak freely or not? Just because SOME members of a group do such things doesn't mean every clan member should be arrested or barred from speaking freely.

2. Ok then...just don't want this to turn into yet another religious debate...and yeah you're right. They're about as much a "church" as the "church" of Scientology.
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Tulivu: I was going to rant at you about the legitimacy of scientology but couldn't fathom the effort to keep a straight face at my desk. Can't let my boss know. I'd lose my poker face, my po-poker face.
They only qualify as Baptist if they can pull off a killer Sunday lunch that walks the line of gluttony.
Don't forget the mandatory 2+ hour church services.
Posted May 31, 2011
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Tulivu: I was going to rant at you about the legitimacy of scientology but couldn't fathom the effort to keep a straight face at my desk. Can't let my boss know. I'd lose my poker face, my po-poker face.
They only qualify as Baptist if they can pull off a killer Sunday lunch that walks the line of gluttony.
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GameRager: Don't forget the mandatory 2+ hour church services.
Not quite dead shipped from nursing home service at 8, regular service at 10 leading to the lunch picnic. That's just Christian.
Posted May 31, 2011
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GameRager: Still, what does that have to do with the klan members who don't do violent acts being able to speak freely or not? Just because SOME members of a group do such things doesn't mean every clan member should be arrested or barred from speaking freely.

2. Ok then...just don't want this to turn into yet another religious debate...and yeah you're right. They're about as much a "church" as the "church" of Scientology.
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Tulivu: I was going to rant at you about the legitimacy of scientology but couldn't fathom the effort to keep a straight face at my desk. Can't let my boss know. I'd lose my poker face, my po-poker face.
They only qualify as Baptist if they can pull off a killer Sunday lunch that walks the line of gluttony.
"Peace, Love, and Barbecue".
Post edited May 31, 2011 by cjrgreen
Posted May 31, 2011
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GameRager: Don't forget the mandatory 2+ hour church services.
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Tulivu: Not quite dead shipped from nursing home service at 8, regular service at 10 leading to the lunch picnic. That's just Christian.
Naw, Christian services usually last just long enough to bore you to tears but leave room to get to the football game/brunch at Denny's.
Posted May 31, 2011
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cjrgreen: Even terrorists have the right to free speech -- until they abuse that right by inciting violence.
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GameRager: Again, they're not terrorists just because some of them do violent acts/crimes......and if some do such acts it doesn't take the whole group's free speech rights away.

That'd be like some who claim that since SOME muslims act violently that we should hate/distrust/restrict ALL muslims.
This isn't an organization which is organized around social gathers where somebody happens to burn a cross. This is an organization that's based around bigotry and threats of violence.

And yes, they do get to keep their free speech, but they're still a terrorist organization.
Posted May 31, 2011
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GameRager: Again, they're not terrorists just because some of them do violent acts/crimes......and if some do such acts it doesn't take the whole group's free speech rights away.

That'd be like some who claim that since SOME muslims act violently that we should hate/distrust/restrict ALL muslims.
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hedwards: This isn't an organization which is organized around social gathers where somebody happens to burn a cross. This is an organization that's based around bigotry and threats of violence.

And yes, they do get to keep their free speech, but they're still a terrorist organization.
That's solely your opinion then. I mean if we were to call them terrorists then why don't we call all gangs terrorists? Where would it end? :P
Posted May 31, 2011
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hedwards: This isn't an organization which is organized around social gathers where somebody happens to burn a cross. This is an organization that's based around bigotry and threats of violence.

And yes, they do get to keep their free speech, but they're still a terrorist organization.
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GameRager: That's solely your opinion then. I mean if we were to call them terrorists then why don't we call all gangs terrorists? Where would it end? :P
No, it's not solely my opinion, that's based upon their historical track record. Bombings, lynchings and various acts of terrorism perpetrated over the last near century. This isn't just violence, this is violence aimed at a group of people based upon an agenda.

Gangbangers are gangbangers, they're a completely different breed. For the most part if you stay out of their territory they don't give a fuck about you. There is some random violence involved, but that's more akin to the old school mafia tactics involved when they had their own turf wars.

All in all it's a completely different situation. You can't end the Klan violence with job programs the way that you can normal gang violence.
Posted May 31, 2011
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GameRager: That's solely your opinion then. I mean if we were to call them terrorists then why don't we call all gangs terrorists? Where would it end? :P
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hedwards: No, it's not solely my opinion, that's based upon their historical track record. Bombings, lynchings and various acts of terrorism perpetrated over the last near century. This isn't just violence, this is violence aimed at a group of people based upon an agenda.

Gangbangers are gangbangers, they're a completely different breed. For the most part if you stay out of their territory they don't give a fuck about you. There is some random violence involved, but that's more akin to the old school mafia tactics involved when they had their own turf wars.

All in all it's a completely different situation. You can't end the Klan violence with job programs the way that you can normal gang violence.
Then you should put all of christianity under the umbrella of terrorism ..or all of islam or all of judeism. Why not put God in the terrorist category. Terror has been waged on people all throughout history in the name of God. There is a lengthy track record. You could also say the American state is a terrorist state because we committed genocide against the native population in the name of "Manifest Destiny".
Posted May 31, 2011
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BlazeKING: You could also say the American state is a terrorist state because we committed genocide against the native population in the name of "Manifest Destiny".
But they wouldn't move over.
Posted May 31, 2011
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hedwards: No, it's not solely my opinion, that's based upon their historical track record. Bombings, lynchings and various acts of terrorism perpetrated over the last near century. This isn't just violence, this is violence aimed at a group of people based upon an agenda.

Gangbangers are gangbangers, they're a completely different breed. For the most part if you stay out of their territory they don't give a fuck about you. There is some random violence involved, but that's more akin to the old school mafia tactics involved when they had their own turf wars.

All in all it's a completely different situation. You can't end the Klan violence with job programs the way that you can normal gang violence.
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BlazeKING: Then you should put all of christianity under the umbrella of terrorism ..or all of islam or all of judeism. Why not put God in the terrorist category. Terror has been waged on people all throughout history in the name of God. There is a lengthy track record. You could also say the American state is a terrorist state because we committed genocide against the native population in the name of "Manifest Destiny".
There may be some arguments in favor of that, but they're weak in comparison to the arguments that may be used to condemn the KKK. The manifesto of the KKK has always been "white supremacy", and it has always sanctioned terrorist acts as a means of achieving white domination.
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)KKK take the moral high ground(101 posts)(101 posts)
(101 posts)