After Double Fine Adventure did well in the Kickstarter site, lots of developers started funding their games there, which is great because it took us to a potential super revival of old school gaming. Tim Schafer, Brian Fargo, Al Lowe, Jordan Weisman and other vets are back! Yay.

I'm worried however that most (not all of them) are missing the point of crowdfunding with the rewards they're offering.

Most indie games sell for about $15-$25 at release day, give or take $5 if you purchase on pre-release. That means these devs have already committed several hundreds of thousands of dollars to their projects ahead of selling a single copy, and they're supposed to make ends meet that way.

Kickstarter offers the alternative: the indie dev now can not only sell ahead of time, but also get donations from people all over the world. I'm calling them "donations" because you could expect someone investing $5000 in gamedev to receive interest in the finished game. That doesn't happen. They usually offer a "reward" in return, which is dinner, photos, a gaming session, in-game rewards, etc. But I digress. Donations are fine and that's not my point.

My grudge is against lower tier rewards. What the devs usually offer, pure and simple, is the option of purchasing the game 1 or 2 years before release. It might include something more or less exclusive like artwork or soundtrack, but one can certainly expect that will be widely available for everyone later. The problem is, instead of charging less for a game purchased early, they're charging MORE.

Question: how much does any PC game cost at release day and what comes in the boxed version? A: It costs about 50 USD and comes with disc and manual. What if it's a collector-grade box? Should cost about 100 USD and include some serious extras, physical merchandise. Now look at the recent high-profile kickstarters. Most want over $100 for the regular package, 2 years ahead of release. What?

Ars Magica: $150 (includes t-shirt and paper map, hardly collector-grade)
Shadowrun Returns: $125 (includes hardcover book, thematic magnetic card, soundtrack disc, poster, dog-tag-shaped USB, fair collector-grade package)
Project Eternity: $65 (minimal package, disc+manual)
Double Fine Adventure: $100 (includes poster, documentary and shirt, fair but no killer deal)
Shaker: $65 (minimal package, disc+manual. The catch is that it "could be" 2 games, but still, c'mon.)
Shaker cheapest collector's edition: $125 (includes nice collector-grade stuff though)
Leisure Suit Larry come again: $100 (fair collector package, including an actual condom)
Broken Sword: $100 (more of the above, shirt, poster, comic book, really not much)
Carmageddon Reincarnation: $150 (shirt, card game, sticker, is that it?)
Banner Saga: $150 (shirt and soundtrack disc, DOESN'T INCLUDE PHYSICAL DISC OF GAME OR MANUAL)
Wasteland 2: $50 and $100 (the regular package comes with the treasured cloth map, collector comes with badge and miniature)

So you see, with the marked exception of Wasteland 2, none of them deliver what the money can buy you, and some don't even have a regular package (disc+manual) at a decent price to compensate. They might not sell the exact same packages on release day because most are going digital-distribution-only, but really, crowdfunding is business they're all selling something, you pay beforehand for something they don't even have to guarantee they'll ever deliver. I'm impressed they even get so many people to pay the dubious premium.

I agree that the wasteland gives the best bang for buck but the entire point of all this is that we're donating so a certain niche game can be made. That's why we are paying more than regular price for end product. Also, nobody can force you to spend more than 15-25$ on any title and considering you get versions for PC, mac and linux and on top that drm free I call that a damn fine trade.
FTL for example: I got steam and gog version for measly 15$ invested. Very fair imho

Valid points, but for people who just want the game the cost is typically $15 or $20 for that reward tier. You're looking at packaged goods, but we have to remember that these indeed are rewards, and most of these "physical copies" or "collector's editions" are not going to be mass produced. They probably are paying more than a typical publisher would to make a tens of thousands copies of a game.

It's not so much about buying those items, it's about deciding how much a person is willing to pledge in order to see the game be made. The developer in return offers these rewards.

Kickstarter is not a pre-order.

This argument only works if Double Fine Adventure was going to actually be released as a physical copy. It isn't. You're not going to be able to stroll into Gamestop and pick it up when it releases, because producing discs and shipping copies requires a publisher, which was the entire reason they went to Kickstarter in the first place.

Every Kickstarter you've listed is effectively going to be a digital exclusive, which torpedoes your entire argument. The physical box is simply a collector's item and can't be compared to a physical copy of your average game.

You don't know that. If they're printing discs and manuals, it can be done without a publisher -- provided it's sold ahead of time. The lack of a publisher in these cases only means it's not going to be widely distributed, which in fact means one less worry and cost. And I asure you, if Brian Fargo could do it, they could all do it.

I am aware they'll probably not be sold in stores, but it's still overpriced and the business model is backwards: instead of rewarding early believers funding development to have profit later, they're profiteering now at the expense of the early believers (selling shirts and games at premium).

Well, I can see why you think it's a bad deal for you to pledge now vs. waiting for retail. But in reality, some of these games would not be made without kickstarter, and you would never have the chance to buy them at retail since they wouldn't exist.

This. A thousand times this. Kickstarter is for funding a project you feel has potential. That's it. People have to stop looking at this as a preorder program.

Everything in the video games category in kickstarter.com is being sold, and stuff sold have a price. You're not donating $20 now to get a game for free later. I know it's *not* the point of Kickstarter, but it's how it works in the video games category.

And it's fitting that it works that way. It's the reason they're able to raise millions of dollars instead of a few thousands of dollars like it works with typical arts crowdfunding projects (see other categories).

edit: forgot the *not*

I guess the people doing the kickstarters should be included in this as I have seen more than a few pitching their product as a pre order

Kickstarter present it as such though. Their "this may not succeed" statements are few in comparison to their "You can have one too!" statements. I think that they need to tighten this whole crowd sourced funding thing up with odds. It's a bet, let's be honest about it. Furthermore, I reckon the bookies might actually give odds.

Some or most projects include a "risks" topic in their descriptions, but the odds of failure are just another reason people shouldn't pay extra. If it's a bet, it's usually an expensive one at that.

To me, Kickstarter is geared more towards die-hards, perhaps willing to pay more than is reasonable in the hopes that something makes it.

Personally, even if I had money to throw at it, I don't think I would. I love gaming, but enough to gamble on the outcome.

And I remember the "good old days" when games would come with all sorts of cool extras without being labeled as "collectors editions" or using these things as some sort of reward.

It is always a bet (or throwaway donation), and that is what people don't seem to get.