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General discussion (archive)Kickstarters cashing out(65 posts)(65 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 24, 2012
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SimonG: Kickstarter is not a pre-order.
This and a physical copy of a game that gets no normal wide physical release is way more expensive in production than a normal physical copy.

What I don't like is when the lowest tier reward that gets you a digital copy actually is more expensive than the game is on release.

On one side I want to help the people to get the money to make a game that interests me but on the other side its an investment and when I make an investment I hope for some return out of that. Getting the game $5 cheaper for example.
Posted October 31, 2012
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DieRuhe: ... I remember the "good old days" when games would come with all sorts of cool extras without being labeled as "collectors editions" ...
Now you're talking. There was a reason to release PC games in big boxes (other than fit ten 5.25" floppies).
Posted October 31, 2012
@OP

Interesting, hadn't really paid much attention since I don't have the spare cash to crowd source anyway, but a valid point.
Posted October 31, 2012
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RafaelLopez: ....
I really think you're looking at this the wrong way:

DD of release day games tend to be not one single dollar cheaper. And let's face it, your boxed copy is almost always just box and media, the same media you could have downloaded directly in most areas of the world.

So, when you Kickstarter a game you can get a DD copy of that game for 10-25 USD, on release day. Usually one or two minor goodies will be tossed in (about the equivalent of a pre-order bonus at Gamestop, which again, will run you around 60 USD).

I understand why you want a physical copy, but physical costs a fuckton and they don't have volume on a lot of these to compensate, you want them to ship all kinds of shit all around the world for a pittance? Did you watch the videos for the Banner Saga rewards shipping (guys at Stoic)? That is completely fucked. Many of these folks are doing this out of their homes and garages, with the exception of Obsidian.

So you're basically demanding they cling to a business model that doesn't make sense. Don't get me wrong, I know you prefer that model and that's okay, but that's not the way they're trying to go and they're right to charge you the premium for the premium purchase you are asking for.

Full disclosure: I've backed many projects for over 100 USD and many others for the minimum or near the lowest tier. I've been happy with all my "purchases" so far except for Project Eternity, which I'm pretty sure I'll never get.
Post edited October 31, 2012 by orcishgamer
Posted October 31, 2012
Ssssooo? If you feel price/reward is inappropriate, don't pay. People will always only get what they feel is worth the money. It doesn't really matter how much that is compared with the future release.
Posted October 31, 2012
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Darkcloud: What I don't like is when the lowest tier reward that gets you a digital copy actually is more expensive than the game is on release.
I have Kickstarted quiet a few video games and this has never happened to me, do you have any examples? If anything most of my Kickstarted titles were cheaper.
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RafaelLopez: Most digital versions of games in Kickstarter aren't so cheap to begin with, although I'm fine with paying up to $20 bucks if I wanted it real bad. But then again I could wait a little and probably get the exact same price at pre-release.

No one is forcing me to buy them now, but they should be more thoughtful.
Yes, they are cheap, you're getting them on release day. For indie games you pay close to what you'd score them for on Steam or GOG near release, but a lot of games will likely cost 50-100% more than the lowest pledge amount.

You can't compare the digital copy to the Steam holiday sale prices for apples to apples.
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wpegg: I think that they need to tighten this whole crowd sourced funding thing up with odds. It's a bet, let's be honest about it. Furthermore, I reckon the bookies might actually give odds.
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RafaelLopez: Some or most projects include a "risks" topic in their descriptions, but the odds of failure are just another reason people shouldn't pay extra. If it's a bet, it's usually an expensive one at that.
I don't look at it as a pre-order, I look at it as patronage for projects I like. I should get something from it, but it might come to naught. It's not a pre-order system, though I see why folks would feel that it is.
Post edited October 31, 2012 by orcishgamer
Posted October 31, 2012
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orcishgamer: So, when you Kickstarter a game you can get a DD copy of that game for 10-25 USD, on release day. Usually one or two minor goodies will be tossed in (about the equivalent of a pre-order bonus at Gamestop, which again, will run you around 60 USD).
Look, high-profile publishers do sell for about 50 USD at release day, but indies? Never seen that. 10-25 USD is the regular price for (downloaded, obviously) indie games, just look at GOG. So they're not crowfunding anything, they're pre-selling years prior to release, offering the regular package and charging premium.
Posted October 31, 2012
nvm
Post edited October 31, 2012 by wpegg
Posted October 31, 2012
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orcishgamer: I understand why you want a physical copy, but physical costs a fuckton and they don't have volume on a lot of these to compensate, you want them to ship all kinds of shit all around the world for a pittance? Did you watch the videos for the Banner Saga rewards shipping (guys at Stoic)? That is completely fucked. Many of these folks are doing this out of their homes and garages, with the exception of Obsidian.

So you're basically demanding they cling to a business model that doesn't make sense.
If you think the physical copies are too heavy a burden, I can relate to that. But they are choosing to sell physical copies, not me. It's part of the crowdfunding thing to have to work your ass to make things happen because if you had lots of people doing your work you'd probably not be crowdfunding to begin with. It's great that they offer substantial rewards, it's part of the reason the Wasteland 2 Kickstarter went such a long way.

I'm not asking them to do things nobody can do, just look at the select few who added better rewards for less money.
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orcishgamer: Full disclosure: I've backed many projects for over 100 USD and many others for the minimum or near the lowest tier. I've been happy with all my "purchases" so far except for Project Eternity, which I'm pretty sure I'll never get.
I did back a few too on different tiers. You got me curious though, do you think the "mighty" Project Eternity (second most funded of all time) will fall short?
Post edited October 31, 2012 by RafaelLopez
Posted October 31, 2012
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orcishgamer: Full disclosure: I've backed many projects for over 100 USD and many others for the minimum or near the lowest tier. I've been happy with all my "purchases" so far except for Project Eternity, which I'm pretty sure I'll never get.
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RafaelLopez: I did back a few too on different tiers. You got me curious though, do you think the "mighty" Project Eternity (second most funded of all time) will fall short?
I think Obsidian doesn't have a single person on staff that understands how to deliver a working product on time, this has been borne out over and over again. They also have a tendency towards mental masturbation, which is neat and all, but they seem to prefer to actually doing anything (see the bullshit armor update from a few days ago).

I simply think they'll never even get halfway done before the money runs out, even if they get all the way done, the game is likely to be unstable shit that the community has to fix.
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orcishgamer: So, when you Kickstarter a game you can get a DD copy of that game for 10-25 USD, on release day. Usually one or two minor goodies will be tossed in (about the equivalent of a pre-order bonus at Gamestop, which again, will run you around 60 USD).
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RafaelLopez: Look, high-profile publishers do sell for about 50 USD at release day, but indies? Never seen that. 10-25 USD is the regular price for (downloaded, obviously) indie games, just look at GOG. So they're not crowfunding anything, they're pre-selling years prior to release, offering the regular package and charging premium.
Why do you call it a "premium" when it's normally priced. And they are crowdfunding, just because digital has essentially free marginal costs for more units they can offer you a copy for essentially free. The money still goes to development and you might not get a game. I want to re-iterate, they're not selling it, I know it may seem like that, but they're not, they're letting you have a voice in what gets created, this is what we've been bitching about and waiting for as gamers, let's use it.
Post edited October 31, 2012 by orcishgamer
Posted October 31, 2012
If you view kickstarter as a pre-order service, then your point would be valid. But, as stated before, it is not. Kickstarter is an investment. If you think a dev has a good idea and would like to see this idea come to fruition, invest in it. The rewards are more like a thank you to those that invested larger amounts than the average investor.
Posted October 31, 2012
I don't think the point of KS video games is "bang for your buck", but to help a developer/s you feel are worthy of support and want to see their game get made. For example on Wasteland 2, I know many backers pledged money at a high level, but said they only wanted the highest digital tier, they didn't want InXile/Fargo to 'waste' money on the physical rewards for them.
Posted October 31, 2012
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cbean85: Kickstarter is an investment.
Really? Then they should pay interest on the investment of millions of dollars into Project Eternity, Double Fine Adventure, etc. Kickstarters on the video games category are pre-selling so seriously that it hurts, they even tend to pick rewards that look like regular prices.

@Crosmando @cbean85 @orcishgmer @crassmaster @oasis789 : People that remind me that Kickstarter is about making something good happen and having the option of playing games that wouldn't exist otherwise, believe me, I agree and that's why I brought this up. Kickstarter's a great way to make potentially awesome things, to show support to certain devs, to exercise some power over the idiotic paths gaming industry tends to take. Everyone is always excited about backed projects, because in a way, each project is "owned" by the community, the fans.

But that's not the point of my post.
Post edited October 31, 2012 by RafaelLopez
Posted October 31, 2012
Don't be daft, it isn't an investment. Are you a literal shareholder in InXile or Double Fine Adventure because you pledged to their projects? No.

It isn't strictly a pre-order either, although some projects like FTL which were coming out regardless of whether their Kickstarter was successful (the so-called "Funding for Enhancement/Extra content") are pretty close.

It's patronage really.
Posted October 31, 2012
The projects I'm backing don't even usually have anything physical... The last successfully one was 3089, and in the highest tier you get to talk to phr00t on Skype.

if you don't like it, then just don't do it. No one is forcing you.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)Kickstarters cashing out(65 posts)(65 posts)
(65 posts)