It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
Community
General discussion (archive)It's not DRM, problem solved?(119 posts)(119 posts)
(119 posts)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
This is my favourite topic
Posted April 13, 2011
avatar
Orryyrro: ...
No, no it isn't different from cracking a game, it is a workaround of a system that is put in place, you do not have to go around dark corners of the internet for a crack you can make one yourself, theoretically anyway. The only difference is the difficulty of execution of the workaround
avatar
Trilarion: Okay, then first show me, explicitly where they officially restrict archiving the installer for games labeled DRM free?

And if so, I will still do it. Seeing the label DRM free and paying for the games, I feel perfectly morally justified to back them up. However I would agree that this would then not be DRM free anymore. So in a potential legal case I would argue that I trusted them on their label. Of course this conservation here should better not be related to me then. :)

edit:
Going directly to "But to download it you need to use our client. " I can say that I perfectly obey this. I use their client to download the game, but I don't use their client to install the game, but backup the installer and install later. Since nothing is said about this....

This might be nitpicking, but I am so fond of Gamersgate, I just want to not give up on them. :) Otherwise I would have to ignore them for the monthly DRM free publications list. :(
My only experience with them is that the only way to back up the file is to circumvent the system which is in place. (i'd also argue that GOG has DRM because it ties games to an account, which prevents you from reselling, the only way to make it not DRM though would be for them to only allow you to download it once, DRM is not always bad as in the described example it would mean no unlimited redownloads, and just because you can deal with it doesn't make it not DRM)
Posted April 13, 2011
avatar
xyem: ...
The simple fact that when referring copying the temporary files, they say "We are aware of this issue", strongly implies they have a problem with it being used in this manner.
I just don't want to interpret what problems they might have. I want it in clear language written somewhere in the general terms of use.

You might be right, but unless they are clear about it, I prefer the other possible explanation: that they were just too lazy to incorporate this button, thinking that most customers anyway don't want to backup but are perfectly fine with a one time download and backup yourself solution.

avatar
Orryyrro: ... the only way to make it not DRM though would be for them to only allow you to download it once...
I don't think it would make it DRM free to limit downloads to one. You can still copy it afterwards infinitely and anyway the reselling is forbidden because of the EULA that comes with the installer not because of the multiple downloads thing. The download as often as you like thing is just a service.
Post edited April 13, 2011 by Trilarion
Posted April 13, 2011
avatar
Trilarion: I just don't want to interpret what problems they might have. I want it in clear language written somewhere in the general terms of use.

You might be right, but unless they are clear about it, I prefer the other possible explanation: that they were just too lazy to incorporate this button, thinking that most customers anyway don't want to backup but are perfectly fine with a one time download and backup yourself solution.
I edited my post containing this because I had a thought on how it could be interpreted quite differently :)

Besides, the "back up yourself" solution requires you to act before the installer runs because (from what I read), it deletes "setup.exe" well before the other files so I very much doubt it was intended to be done that way :P
Post edited April 13, 2011 by xyem
Posted April 13, 2011
avatar
xyem: I ... they may have meant they are aware of the issue that backing up the installer is non-obvious (optimistic thought)
People have posted comments from them before that makes it clear they know about the work-around and consider it a sort of unofficial bypass. Take that as you will.

I know I use gamersgate because it effectively has no service-related DRM. If they ever change that I would probably stop using GG. The more people draw attention to the bypass the more likely it is they will one day "fix" it.
Post edited April 13, 2011 by StingingVelvet
Posted April 13, 2011
avatar
Darling_Jimmy: I live on a sailboat. I make a big fuss when I encounter a game requiring an internet connection. Believe it or not, a lot of the ocean still doesn't have Wi-Fi hotspots.
You don't want to pay $9 a megabyte for INMARSAT? You can get it darn near anywhere ^_^
Posted April 13, 2011
avatar
Trilarion: I don't think it would make it DRM free to limit downloads to one. You can still copy it afterwards infinitely and anyway the reselling is forbidden because of the EULA that comes with the installer not because of the multiple downloads thing. The download as often as you like thing is just a service.
The ability to resell software is a legal right in a lot of countries, in which case it doesn't matter what the EULA says. If an EULA were to say you couldn't copy a game would it mean that the copy protection on it wasn't DRM? No, no it would not. I mean that it is physically impossible to legally sell the games you buy on GOG because you ill always have access to a copy because it is tied to an account, if it wasn't tied to an account you could sell it legally because you could get rid of every copy at once.
Posted April 13, 2011
avatar
StingingVelvet: The more people draw attention to the bypass the more likely it is they will one day "fix" it.
Which would make no sense if they regard it as an unofficial bypass (again, choice of wording implies someone considers it DRM :P).

I can understand the comments about GOG being DRM.. though the situations are different. You can download the installer obviously and that is not tied to your account in any way. You could also (easily) sell the installer to someone else.. whether GOG would update accounts to reflect that (i.e. remove it from yours) I don't think has ever been seen.

If you're dishonest, it is no different to buying a physical copy of a game, making of copy of the CD and then selling the original on. Thus, I don't see the way GOG works as being DRM.
Post edited April 13, 2011 by xyem
Posted April 13, 2011
i can see people posting work- around to help fellow users but post it to the company and tease them fix it :O how foolish is that?
if you find a work around use it wisely unless you are an EA employee or something
Posted April 13, 2011
I think that they do not want to draw to much attention to this possibility and instead want to have at least some control over where their products are installed relying on that most people just click only on available buttons anyway while at the same time not forbidding it too in order to not loose customers that like to make backups - like me. It seems like a: it's okay as long as nobody talks about it and not too many people are doing it - kind of situation. So from my side no more comments here in order to not make the situation worse. I hope they relax it in the future instead of "fixing" it - but who knows...
Post edited April 13, 2011 by Trilarion
Posted April 13, 2011
avatar
StingingVelvet: The more people draw attention to the bypass the more likely it is they will one day "fix" it.
avatar
xyem: Which would make no sense if they regard it as an unofficial bypass (again, choice of wording implies someone considers it DRM :P).

I can understand the comments about GOG being DRM.. though the situations are different. You can download the installer obviously and that is not tied to your account in any way. You could also (easily) sell the installer to someone else.. whether GOG would update accounts to reflect that (i.e. remove it from yours) I don't think has ever been seen.

If you're dishonest, it is no different to buying a physical copy of a game, making of copy of the CD and then selling the original on. Thus, I don't see the way GOG works as being DRM.
Right, you can do that, you can copy it and sell the copy, but you can't resell it legally, to resell it you have to either give the buyer every copy you have access to, destroy every copy you have access to or any combination thereof, with it tied to your account, you can't do that.
Posted April 13, 2011
avatar
Orryyrro: ...
Right, you can do that, you can copy it and sell the copy, but you can't resell it legally, to resell it you have to either give the buyer every copy you have access to, destroy every copy you have access to or any combination thereof, with it tied to your account, you can't do that.
But who would believe you that you have destroyed all your copies? And how can the other person prove that they have bought something / a legal product?
Posted April 13, 2011
avatar
Trilarion: But who would believe you that you have destroyed all your copies? And how can the other person prove that they have bought something / a legal product?
That's the very thing about DRM, it treats you as a criminal despite there being no evidence, the ability to resell a product is a legal right in many countries, such as the first-sale doctrine in the United States, GOG physically prevents that from happening.

If I merely wished to sell copies, nothing currently on GOG's installers is preventing me from doing so, if I wish to legally resell the game, GOG is preventing me from doing so.
Posted April 13, 2011
avatar
Smannesman: GamersGate delivers DRM-free games without DRM, that you need a little piece of software to download it once is fine in my eyes.
It doesn't install anything and it's not needed if you want to install your games later on, it's just their way to protect their servers/bandwidth.
That being said, an option to copy the installer to another location or a 'just download the installer, don't install it' option would be more user friendly than having to copy the files yourself.
But it is needed. After installation, the downloader encrypts the install file and you need to log in again to install it at a later date. Just because it's possible to bypass doesn't make it ok.
Posted April 13, 2011
avatar
Orryyrro: Right, you can do that, you can copy it and sell the copy, but you can't resell it legally, to resell it you have to either give the buyer every copy you have access to, destroy every copy you have access to or any combination thereof, with it tied to your account, you can't do that.
Why would GOG refuse to take it off your account if you tell them you have sold your copy to someone else? Knowing them, they'd probably offer to move it to the other persons account if they made one on GOG!

EDIT: I found this topic where this issue has come up before ( http://www.gog.com/en/forum/general/lands_of_lore_1 ). Apparently, its in the EULA that you can't resell it.
Post edited April 13, 2011 by xyem
Posted April 13, 2011
avatar
Orryyrro: Right, you can do that, you can copy it and sell the copy, but you can't resell it legally, to resell it you have to either give the buyer every copy you have access to, destroy every copy you have access to or any combination thereof, with it tied to your account, you can't do that.
avatar
xyem: Why would GOG refuse to take it off your account if you tell them you have sold your copy to someone else? Knowing them, they'd probably offer to move it to the other persons account if they made one on GOG!
Would they? i'd actually like a comment on that by someone from GOG's staff.
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)It's not DRM, problem solved?(119 posts)(119 posts)
(119 posts)