It's kinda funny how they say that buying a legal copy game used is worse than pirating it, so i'm doing damage either way :P Mostly i buy my console games from bargain bins, or i use cheapassgamer to track down good deals.

yeah I know a lot of them do. Something is wrong with the editing of posts here for me, I had edited it so it didn't sound like I meant ALL pirates, but then it changed my sentence back to the original .

anyhoo yeah there a lot of pirates that do what you said, and a lot of pirates that don't.
/deep analysis

Console games are still a little different anyway, as you are still purchasing something physical. Used games were perfectly normal during a time when the production costs were still vey high (cardriges, e.g.). But the high retail price of a new game already factored in that the game might be resold. The gaming industry did the same as the music/movie industry when they kept the manufacturing savings as profits and didn't make games cheaper.

On the PC a new game digital for 50$/€ is pure moneygrabbing. The industry still makes massive profits of "sales" prices (50% off, even 75% off), because that leads to a massive increased number of sales which easliy counters the lost profit. That is also one of the reasons that PC games dropped so fast in prices nowadays.

Depends on whether you are trying to exercise the benefits of it being a license or being a physical good.

You brought a license for Game X and got the physical media with your licensed data on it. But horror! Your DVD ripped the disc to pieces. No problem, you still have your license and you can get a replacement disc - for a minimal fee - from somewhere.. right? Right?

No. because you brought a physical disc. That's fine.. that means I can make as many backup copies as I want.. right? Right?

No, because you brought a license that says you can't.

The majority of piracy seems to come from regions where copyright laws are either ignored or non-existent. There's a culture of not paying for stuff you can just download off the internet.

That said, it's still a generalisation to say that all pirates wouldn't buy games if piracy wasn't an option.

Equally buying a used game for £3 on eBay doesn't indicate any intention to pay £30+ for it new.

That is the thing I like about the "digital age" no more physical data *rejoice* and an online storage service on top for free (Yes, I know that Steam and GOG may one day go bankrupt, but I I'm willing to take the risk).

The whole licensing thing with not for redistribution is not new though. That stuff was printed in books when gaming was in its infancy (This book may not be lent, resold etc.). What you're saying suggests that libraries are some dark underground organisation.

None of this is new, just as poets understood that they couldn't stop people from repeating their verses, games 'creators' need to understand they can't keep their bits hidden. Resale is just the same for a game as it is for a book.

The funny thing is, as much as developers go on about Used games being a terrible thing for their sales, The one platform that's almost impossible to buy used games on (PC) due to CD Keys etc gets the worst treatment of all via Securom and bullshit DRM like that.

Maybe I was phrasing it wrong. Neither the used market, nor piracy is especially harmful to the industry. I was just trying to make a jab at those people who say that pirates should be flogged without themselves ever buying a new game.

That's because it is also the easiest platform for piracy ;-).

No worse then piracy... Well in theory one could say that is more harmful then piracy because a person that buy used (a few days after a new release) have the intent to buy a game (spend money) but simply do it on the copy that is a few $ cheaper. If we talk about people that go out and buy a game for lets say... 3$ (i think that was the example made in this thread) then no.

And lets not forget one more thing... Console games (where this happen the most) tend to "die" after a while. Making them a lot harder to get as a new copy.

But no. Its not killing or hurting the industry and neither is piracy. If either one stopped there would not be a 1000% increase in sales (like some publishers dream about).

It is easy yes, but it's not that hard to pirate console games (especially Wii). Maybe if developers really wanted to stop it they could use some form of DRM if they REALLY wanted too but again, they have had access to DRM for ages now. If they really wanted to stop console Used games they surely would have implemented that sort of thing on console discs already.

As someone in this thread said before, Publishers just want everything (much like the goverment with SOPA/PIPA/ACTA) and they don't want people doing a single thing they can't control.

From the publisher's point of view, it may be bad, just like people buying older games from bargain bins is bad, instead of buying or preordering 50-80€ new games, or people playing one game for too long, instead of buying weekly new games for full price.

If publishers had their way, all purchased games would become unplayable one week after they were first run, just so that people would have to buy more games frequently in order to play anything at all. That would solve the "used games problem" at the same time.

Piracy is the worst for the industry because it allows everyone to instantly have a free copy of their own from one original item. Second-hand games don't allow that, either people have to wait indefinitely until someone is willing to pass on their original game, or if they are not patient enough, go buy a new one. Thus, it is quite silly to claim piracy is no more, or even less, harmful than second-hand games.

For the quality and replay value of games, thriving second hand market is good because it is an incentive for the developers to make games that people don't want to pass on after the first weekend they bought (and completed) it. With piracy there is no such incentive because no one would buy an original copy anyway if there is a free copy available easily (and without consequences).

Claiming that most pirates "would have not bought any of their pirated games anyway" or "they use the pirated version only as a demo, and buy the game later on just the same they would have if there was no pirated version available at all" is pure BS, nothing more.

Personally what I find the most ridiculous in this whole "debate" is the silly sense of entitlement of the gaming industry (or the media industry in general), yes they don't get money from used games... but it's perfectly normal, they shouldn't !

They sold a license, somebody bought it, if the buyer decide to sell it again it should be his right, as long as he totally transfer the license ownership to the new buyer (and don't keep any copy of the game). But this second sale doesn't concert AT ALL the industry, they already got paid for their work they, don't deserve any extra cents from what happens after.

That's IMHO where todays copyrights laws and/or EULA have gone overboard, companies want's us to buy their work, sorry I mean they want you to purchase a license, but still want to keep full control over it and refuse to make any compromise until forced to do so.

If the used market and piracy are ever "defeated" I am convinced that it will be a VERY bad news for legit customers, that's the saddest thing we often talk about how much piracy hurt the media industries but I think the real question is how much piracy actually helped customers.

If it wasn't as an atempt to fight piracy (or at least lower it's atractiveness) would we have DRM-free music ? would we have the possibility to buy song one by one istead as part of an album ? would we have interoperability (i.e. being able to buy a movie/sond once and play it on different device ) ?

Knowing how much they are control freaks I honestly doubt it, I am even pretty sure that things would be much much worse.

I remember at the begining of the "digital era" the things that frightened the media industry the most wasn't the second hand market, heck it wasn't even piracy, no the thing that terrified them was the "everlasting" nature of digital data, that you could buy a CD (and later DVD) and listen to it for as long as you wanted without ever needing to buy it again. (something that was impossible with TAPE and VHS)

What is the difference between stealing and piracy?

You question should have been :

"Would you also take a jab at people who say that reading a book in a bookshop is wrong when they only ever go to the library?"

And yes, I would. But I hate people in a bookstore, because I worked in a (comic)bookstore, so I'm biased.

Edit: Oh, and of course: COME AT ME, BRO!