It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
timppu: I've yet to install and play Dawn of War, no idea if it fits the bill. I recall reading earlier though that you can only play the human part in it? Or maybe it was just in the base game.
Base game = Space Marines only. It's got solid campaign, but nothing to write home about. See, this is the main difference: StarCraft's got very well crafted campaigns, but combat and unit interactions are mostly boring. In DoW, you get mediocre campaign, but units actually yell at each other while attacking, meele attacks are synced and ... well look like meele combat, units lose morale, explosins are very explody... The gameplay itself is quite simply much more satisfying.

Expansion Winter Assault = one of the best campaigns I have ever played. You can pick between 'good' or 'bad' campaign ('good' being Eldar and Space Marines and 'bad' chaos Space Marines and Orks) and, especially the 'good' one, is utterly amazing. It always keeps you on your toes, is hard enough yet not frustrating, missions are dynamic... Really, it's great.

Expansion Dark Crusade = you can play anyone you want to, it's basically a global map where you choose what you wish to attack and then fight a skirmish battle. It's not bad, but when I want a skirmish battle, I just play skirmish (and I actually play a lot of that for a change in DoW, game's so atmospheric it actually works on me)

Expansion Soulstorm = same as DC, but the expansion's got some serious issues.
avatar
hedwards: The compelling reason is that it's the sequel to SC. And Blizzard took the previous decade of adjustments and balances from SC when they designed the new version.
(...)
EDIT: You of all people ought to know better than appealing to popularity.
It obviously is a sequel. With that in mind - the unstable equilibrium you get in terms of balance, means that they couldn't simply have slapped new units on to of the old ones, since every decision they make ripples through the entire game with side-effects.
If appeal to popularity does not convince you, how about appeal to authority - progamers have embraced it, KeSPA approves of it, the strategic depth it offers requires an inquisitive mind to properly analyze it...
But Korean acceptance is one thing, foreign interest is another. You can claim that Blizzard intended SC2 to be an esport, popular worldwide... but things of this sort don't JUST HAPPEN if they're wishful thinking. The game is aesthetically and intellectually pleasing, it is popular, it is quite unlike other games out there (as this thread, in its inception, was meant to point out).

avatar
hedwards: The fact that they had an established player base and gave them the same thing again, does not make it a compelling product. It makes it a product where the developer was lazy and lacking in ambition.
You can accuse Blizzard of many things, but "lack of ambition" is not one of them.
I don't think making a worthy successor to StarCraft is a simplistic goal.

avatar
hedwards: And no, it's not facts you're using so much as rationalizations.
I've been following the game's development since there was anything to follow. It's not like me liking it was some foregone conclusion - I've been skeptical in the beginning but, as time went on, I've grown to love it. It's not even that was such a huge Blizzard fan, so I had to like StarCraft - I BECAME a fan because of it.
The fact that there is an entire little "world" out there, full of people discussing strategies, commentating matches, watching tournaments... The degree to which this game has impacted societies (through the phenomenon of "e-sports") is unprecedented. Perhaps you think I fancy claiming more than is already apparent - I don't. I know the game has its flaws, among them the single-player story. I can live with that.

If you are trying to claim that it is not a "good game" but merely mass delusion, I would have to ask what criteria you are taking into account to reach such a conclusion. If something is wildly popular and there's no apparent reason for it being merely a shallow crowd-pleaser, I'd be inclined to assume that it is "good" and people instinctively recognize that.
It's only good because it's a good sequel ? That's all I even wanted it to be. That's fine with me.

avatar
hedwards: The game would have been significant had it been released 5 or 6 years earlier. But as it stands, it's pretty much just a case of Blizzard trying to continue milking the cow.
That's like claiming that given people only love each other because they've been together for years - if the passion is still there, if the interest is evidently present - it's the other way around (they've been together for years because they love each other). The undwindling popularity of Brood War has set the bar high for its sequel. The fact that StarCraft 2 was able to take over, only proves how awesome the game is.
To be able to milk a cow, you're going to need: a cow, the ability to milk it and the cow having milk. If you're merely imagining that you could one day buy a cow and laughing at how trivial milking it is, ridiculing those who milk their own cows in the process, you're not really being reasonable. I like milk, I like cheese, I like plenty of dairy products. I idea that milking is easy (regardless of whether it truly is) does not really make me appreciate its effects any less.
avatar
doady: Starcraft was a clone of Warcraft, so the accepted term for these type of games is "Warcraft clone" and there are a shit load of them.
This. It's like since 1996 almost all RTS games were either inspired by C&C or Warcraft 2 and in the long run the conventions set by Blizzard became the by far more popular ones (for good reasons btw). Today it's so natural that an RTS game is inspired by either Warcraft or Starcraft that it's not really worth mentioning anymore. :P
there's this one rts that looks very much like Starcraft, is of Polish or Russian origin, but I can't remember it's name :((((
avatar
doady: Starcraft was a clone of Warcraft, so the accepted term for these type of games is "Warcraft clone" and there are a shit load of them.
avatar
F4LL0UT: This. It's like since 1996 almost all RTS games were either inspired by C&C or Warcraft 2 and in the long run the conventions set by Blizzard became the by far more popular ones (for good reasons btw). Today it's so natural that an RTS game is inspired by either Warcraft or Starcraft that it's not really worth mentioning anymore. :P
Agreed - it's like asking for clones of Doom...
avatar
Crispy78: Agreed - it's like asking for clones of Doom...
Funny, I also thought of adding this "Doom clone" example but thought that would be an overkill. But heck: Team overkill five!
avatar
Kunovski: there's this one rts that looks very much like Starcraft, is of Polish or Russian origin, but I can't remember it's name :((((
Was it 3D or 2D? When it comes to newer 2D RTS games I always think of Sunage which I unfortunately never got to play (I think it's Austrian though). Would love to try it.
Post edited September 17, 2012 by F4LL0UT
avatar
F4LL0UT: Was it 3D or 2D? When it comes to newer 2D RTS games I always think of Sunage which I unfortunately never got to play.
yes, it's Sunage! thanks :) pretty decent actually...

EDIT: hmm, and it's Austrian apparently. don't know how I came with a Slavic nation :D
Post edited September 17, 2012 by Kunovski
avatar
timppu: Age of Empires and Command & Conquer (or Total Annihilation for that matter) are not Starcraft clones, because they fail especially the first requirement for one. The different factions play more or less the same, only some changes in some units etc.
Starcraft (31/march/1998) was released after any of those games.
AOE 26/October/1997
CnC 1992
and what about Submarine Titans?
avatar
Elmofongo: The are 100s of wow clones, a good number of diablo clones, but I have never seen a single starcraft clone at all.

am I wrong on this GOG, you have any examples
There are really no 'Warcraft' clones either as Westwood beat Blizzard to the shelves with Command & Conquer.

Now, many moons later there have been so many C&C clones that it's easier to lump them all in a genre called 'RTS.'
Post edited September 18, 2012 by carnival73
avatar
Elmofongo: The are 100s of wow clones, a good number of diablo clones, but I have never seen a single starcraft clone at all.

am I wrong on this GOG, you have any examples
avatar
carnival73: There are really no 'Warcraft' clones either as Westwood beat Blizzard to the shelves with Command & Conquer.

Now, many moons later there have been so many C&C clones that it's easier to lump them all in a genre called 'RTS.'
Dune II was first.
avatar
carnival73: Now, many moons later there have been so many C&C clones that it's easier to lump them all in a genre called 'RTS.'
I like your idea but I don't think it'll ever catch on ;P...
avatar
Cabzx: I don't understand fully this thread. Isn't Starcraft a Warcraft II in space? Aren't all this games clones of Dune II?
Cabzx is right. If you haven't ever played Dune II and don't mind some fairly dated graphics, it's definitely worth grabbing a copy to see where the genre started. People should be saying "Dune II clone" instead of "Starcraft clone".

I remember buying it just as it came out - it was such a revolutionary game and ensured Westwood's rise in the industry.
avatar
Elmofongo: The are 100s of wow clones, a good number of diablo clones, but I have never seen a single starcraft clone at all.

am I wrong on this GOG, you have any examples
There were tonnes and btw 'starcraft clones' is not really the correct term since all RTS games were cloning earlier RTS like Dune, command and conquer and warcraft 1 (the original).

Starcraft began as warcraft in space. So starcraft is really a warcraft clone which in turn is a dune clone. :)
Everything is a clone of the Cathode Ray Tube Amusement Device.