Posted December 08, 2012
A feature which is heavily requested ( top wish on the community site feature wishlist) and intensively discussed by the community (1 and many more threads), is GOG support for linux (the ecosystem, not the kernel).
So, why is GOG not offering this? Is there a good reason for missing this chance and market?
GOG statements on linux support
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/linux_support_on_gog/post14
[...]let's just look at what *I* can think of that makes Linux release a very difficult proposition:
1: Testing. What distros do we support? There are 10 "fairly common" ones [...]. Hardware? What level of updates? [...] Managing testing across the 3 OSes we support is tough and requires a lot of time, effort, and money. How much more complex will 10 more OSes make it?
2. Support. [...] LInux is famous as the hacker's OS--that is to say, the OS of people who like to do odd things with their hardware. If someone contacts Support because he can't get his copy of Fallout running on his Raspberry Pi with a video out that's connected to a six-panel e-ink display and he wants his money back, well, that puts us in a bad spot.
3. Maintanence. Across those 10 common distros, how often does one of them update? Quarterly? Monthly? I don't know, but the answer is certainly "often". What do we do if slackware updates and breaks the functionality of a glide wrapper that we're using for all of our games? [...]I'm sure some businesses may even consider that a successful business model--but that's not really the GOG way of doing business. ;)
[...]. Linux is, what, 1% of the market for desktop computers? That's a lot of work for a very small audience. It's still quite possible that, after evaluation, the answer will still be, "No, sorry, This will cost us more money than it makes."
"[...] PCG: And Linux? TL: Linux gaming is also something we’d love to do, but we haven’t made any announcements about it yet. We’ve been looking at it. I’ve been making public statements for a while that there are technical hurdles. Steam’s approach is to say, “Here’s our distro, we support this distro. Have another distro? Sorry.” That’s not how GOG does things, we’re more free-range gaming. So we’re looking at how to deliver the GOG experience on— we can’t say every computer, because you can of course hook up an E Ink display with 2-color CGA as your monitor, use Lynx as your web browser, and run some weird Debian distro that you’ve custom modded to do just what you want and then say, “How come I can’t play your games? [...]”
(rough) Summary: "GOG: We would like to support the linux ecosystem... but we don't know how to do it in (technical and economical) feasible way."
Situation/History
Is gog.com right? Is the task of supporting the linux ecosystem too demanding and complicated? Or, are they just "whiners" ? There is also the HIB, the steam linux client project etc...
Maybe, maybe not... but there seems to be a long stream and history of criticsm on deployment, development and support mechanisms for third party applications on linux. By people who should know, people involved:
2006: Benjamin Smedberg (Mozilla) Is Ubuntu an Operating System? "The final (and perhaps most pernicious) problem when thinking about redistributable software is the ongoing binary incompatibility between various Linux distributions and between versions of the same Linux distribution."
2006: Ian Murdock (Debian Founder/)</span> [url=http://ianmurdock.com/linux/software-installation-on-linux-today-it-sucks-part-1/]Software installation on Linux: Today, it sucks (part 1) "And, no, moving everything into the distribution is not a very good option. Remember that one of the key tenets of open source is decentralization, so if the only solution is to centralize everything, there’s something fundamentally wrong with this picture."
2007: Mike Hearn ()</span> [url=http://web.archive.org/web/20080405004634/http://www.linux.com/articles/60124]Autopackage struggling to gain acceptance "The whole idea of packaging/installation is bogus and leftover from the times when software was distributed on floppy disks," Hearn claims. "The web 'instant activation' model is better but requires advances in client-side platforms first around streaming and security."
2009: Tony Mobily (FS Magazine) 2009: software installation in GNU/Linux is still broken -- and a path to fixing it "Every GNU/Linux distribution at the moment (including Ubuntu) confuses system software with end user software, whereas they are two very different beasts which should be treated very, very differently.“
2010: Dave Burke (Osmos) Porting Osmos to Linux: A Post-Mortem (part 2/3) "Didn’t Love: Packaging the Game. It took days of effort to create the binary packages for Osmos [...] How should an app be packaged in Linux? [...]There are no standards or clear answers to any of these questions. There’s no documentation for this stuff! Asking on the forums will typically net you a spectrum of answers with no consensus answer and lots of little side arguments.[...]“
2010: Matthew Paul Thomas (Ubuntu) Upgrading packaged Ubuntu application unreasonably involves upgrading entire OS "It is easier to upgrade to the newest stable versions of most applications -- even open source applications -- on a proprietary operating system than it is on Ubuntu."
2012: Ingo Molnar (Kernel developer) Technology: What ails the Linux desktop? Part I. "[...]many OSS developers don't realize what a deep hole we are in. The desktop Linux suckage we are seeing today - on basically all the major Linux distributions - are the final symptoms of mistakes made 10-20 years ago - the death cries of a platform."
2012: Miguel de Icaza (gnome founder): What Killed the Linux Desktop "But we missed the big picture. We alienated every third party developer in the process."
What to do?
I think gog has good reasons to evaluate the support of the linux ecosystem very cautious... maybe the linux community should do the first step and remove some obstacles.
First step should be the acceptance that the fragmentation of the linux distros is a hinderance, that missing stable API/ABIs are a problem and that the deployment via centralized repros & packagemanagmet is not a universal solution. Third party developers and distributors (like GOG) demand a simple distro independent way for app development, deployment and support (in binary form) ... which works for the whole linux ecosystem for a reasonable amount of time, with a reasonable effort.
Sadly, 2 major chances to improve this situation were missed: 2005 the project by Mike Hearn was [url=http://web.archive.org/web/20080405004634/http://www.linux.com/articles/60124]overwhelmed by LSB was also not succesful enough.
But luckily, the endless variety of the linux ecosystem hides several alternatives which could be a start:
[url=http://portablelinuxapps.org/ ]portablelinuxapps.org [/url] "Distribution agnostic portable software packages"
zero-install.sourceforge.net "Zero Install is a decentralised cross-distribution software installation system."
http://www.pgbovine.net/cde.html "CDE: Automatically create portable Linux applications"
So, what do you think, what can be done and what must be done to help GOG in supporting the linux ecosystem?
(and if not enough can be done... are there alternatives ?)
So, why is GOG not offering this? Is there a good reason for missing this chance and market?
GOG statements on linux support
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/linux_support_on_gog/post14
[...]let's just look at what *I* can think of that makes Linux release a very difficult proposition:
1: Testing. What distros do we support? There are 10 "fairly common" ones [...]. Hardware? What level of updates? [...] Managing testing across the 3 OSes we support is tough and requires a lot of time, effort, and money. How much more complex will 10 more OSes make it?
2. Support. [...] LInux is famous as the hacker's OS--that is to say, the OS of people who like to do odd things with their hardware. If someone contacts Support because he can't get his copy of Fallout running on his Raspberry Pi with a video out that's connected to a six-panel e-ink display and he wants his money back, well, that puts us in a bad spot.
3. Maintanence. Across those 10 common distros, how often does one of them update? Quarterly? Monthly? I don't know, but the answer is certainly "often". What do we do if slackware updates and breaks the functionality of a glide wrapper that we're using for all of our games? [...]I'm sure some businesses may even consider that a successful business model--but that's not really the GOG way of doing business. ;)
[...]. Linux is, what, 1% of the market for desktop computers? That's a lot of work for a very small audience. It's still quite possible that, after evaluation, the answer will still be, "No, sorry, This will cost us more money than it makes."
"[...] PCG: And Linux? TL: Linux gaming is also something we’d love to do, but we haven’t made any announcements about it yet. We’ve been looking at it. I’ve been making public statements for a while that there are technical hurdles. Steam’s approach is to say, “Here’s our distro, we support this distro. Have another distro? Sorry.” That’s not how GOG does things, we’re more free-range gaming. So we’re looking at how to deliver the GOG experience on— we can’t say every computer, because you can of course hook up an E Ink display with 2-color CGA as your monitor, use Lynx as your web browser, and run some weird Debian distro that you’ve custom modded to do just what you want and then say, “How come I can’t play your games? [...]”
(rough) Summary: "GOG: We would like to support the linux ecosystem... but we don't know how to do it in (technical and economical) feasible way."
Situation/History
Is gog.com right? Is the task of supporting the linux ecosystem too demanding and complicated? Or, are they just "whiners" ? There is also the HIB, the steam linux client project etc...
Maybe, maybe not... but there seems to be a long stream and history of criticsm on deployment, development and support mechanisms for third party applications on linux. By people who should know, people involved:
2006: Benjamin Smedberg (Mozilla) Is Ubuntu an Operating System? "The final (and perhaps most pernicious) problem when thinking about redistributable software is the ongoing binary incompatibility between various Linux distributions and between versions of the same Linux distribution."
2006: Ian Murdock (Debian Founder/)</span> [url=http://ianmurdock.com/linux/software-installation-on-linux-today-it-sucks-part-1/]Software installation on Linux: Today, it sucks (part 1) "And, no, moving everything into the distribution is not a very good option. Remember that one of the key tenets of open source is decentralization, so if the only solution is to centralize everything, there’s something fundamentally wrong with this picture."
2007: Mike Hearn ()</span> [url=http://web.archive.org/web/20080405004634/http://www.linux.com/articles/60124]Autopackage struggling to gain acceptance "The whole idea of packaging/installation is bogus and leftover from the times when software was distributed on floppy disks," Hearn claims. "The web 'instant activation' model is better but requires advances in client-side platforms first around streaming and security."
2009: Tony Mobily (FS Magazine) 2009: software installation in GNU/Linux is still broken -- and a path to fixing it "Every GNU/Linux distribution at the moment (including Ubuntu) confuses system software with end user software, whereas they are two very different beasts which should be treated very, very differently.“
2010: Dave Burke (Osmos) Porting Osmos to Linux: A Post-Mortem (part 2/3) "Didn’t Love: Packaging the Game. It took days of effort to create the binary packages for Osmos [...] How should an app be packaged in Linux? [...]There are no standards or clear answers to any of these questions. There’s no documentation for this stuff! Asking on the forums will typically net you a spectrum of answers with no consensus answer and lots of little side arguments.[...]“
2010: Matthew Paul Thomas (Ubuntu) Upgrading packaged Ubuntu application unreasonably involves upgrading entire OS "It is easier to upgrade to the newest stable versions of most applications -- even open source applications -- on a proprietary operating system than it is on Ubuntu."
2012: Ingo Molnar (Kernel developer) Technology: What ails the Linux desktop? Part I. "[...]many OSS developers don't realize what a deep hole we are in. The desktop Linux suckage we are seeing today - on basically all the major Linux distributions - are the final symptoms of mistakes made 10-20 years ago - the death cries of a platform."
2012: Miguel de Icaza (gnome founder): What Killed the Linux Desktop "But we missed the big picture. We alienated every third party developer in the process."
What to do?
I think gog has good reasons to evaluate the support of the linux ecosystem very cautious... maybe the linux community should do the first step and remove some obstacles.
First step should be the acceptance that the fragmentation of the linux distros is a hinderance, that missing stable API/ABIs are a problem and that the deployment via centralized repros & packagemanagmet is not a universal solution. Third party developers and distributors (like GOG) demand a simple distro independent way for app development, deployment and support (in binary form) ... which works for the whole linux ecosystem for a reasonable amount of time, with a reasonable effort.
Sadly, 2 major chances to improve this situation were missed: 2005 the project by Mike Hearn was [url=http://web.archive.org/web/20080405004634/http://www.linux.com/articles/60124]overwhelmed by LSB was also not succesful enough.
But luckily, the endless variety of the linux ecosystem hides several alternatives which could be a start:
[url=http://portablelinuxapps.org/ ]portablelinuxapps.org [/url] "Distribution agnostic portable software packages"
zero-install.sourceforge.net "Zero Install is a decentralised cross-distribution software installation system."
http://www.pgbovine.net/cde.html "CDE: Automatically create portable Linux applications"
So, what do you think, what can be done and what must be done to help GOG in supporting the linux ecosystem?
(and if not enough can be done... are there alternatives ?)
Post edited December 11, 2012 by shaddim