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General discussion (archive)Is Steam DRM?(329 posts)(329 posts)
(329 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted September 25, 2010
Hehe, don't forget the error messages . . . =)
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ad2.jpg (329 Kb)
Posted September 25, 2010
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Stuff: Hehe, don't forget the error messages . . . =)
Are those for real???
Posted September 25, 2010
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Faithful: Are those for real???
Absolutely, just Google "steam errors" under images or something to that effect. I copied those off of steam error images posted on the steam forum.
Edit: It's been a while back, might have been "Valve errors" - but they are legit.
Here you go . . . =)
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steamerrormessag.jpg (47 Kb)
Post edited September 25, 2010 by Stuff
Posted September 25, 2010
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Stuff: Hehe, don't forget the error messages . . . =)
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Faithful: Are those for real???
They very much are. I have run into at least seven of them throughout the years, multiple times. Their stability leaves a bit to be desired, especially lately as the attached image shows. Everything crashed, and nobody could access their games for a little while. Fun times!
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steam.jpg (31 Kb)
Posted September 25, 2010
Well, these are another reason to not use Steam.
Posted September 25, 2010
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Faithful: Well, these are another reason to not use Steam.
The errors are very rare for me and my steam friends, in fact the image Stuff linked is the only error in my three years of using steam that I class as serious. This only because steam multiplayer servers were down. I could play all of my games, as I don't own any games that only are playable with steam servers running. I switched to offline mode and everything was fine and dandy.

Listing a few errors as a reason not to use steam seems, to me, a little weird. If I applied the same feeling towards products and services I use on a day to day basis, I'd end up living like a caveman.

I'm not saying you're wrong, (far from it),yet errors and outages are are part of, well, nearly anything.
Posted September 25, 2010
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eyeball226: You realise you're saying this on a forum full of people who buy games here, quite a large number of which like this place because of it's lack of DRM?
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k1o9s2s: Yes, I do. But even GOG staff have stated they have an issue with people pirating the games from here.. (Was one of their reasons for why GOG couldn't stay the way it was) so even here they still add to the desire of companies to stop that...
DRM free is attractive, no doubt. Sadly, it's always going to be abused.
I don't follow.. Piracy was the reason GOG had to come out of beta... lolwut?
Posted September 26, 2010
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tacossmellgood: Because Steam serves the same ends as DRM, albeit in a different form, it is essentially DRM.
I think the real issue here is that the forms of DRM, and therefore the definition of DRM is expanding.
first of all, let's start with a random definition, let's say the first two sentences on wikipedia, it says that drm "...is a generic term for access control technologies that can be used by hardware manufacturers, publishers, copyright holders and individuals to limit the usage of digital content and devices. The term is used to describe any technology that inhibits uses of digital content not desired or intended by the content provider."
that covers steam.
follow up on the wiki sources if you so wish.
however, even if you argue that you would rather use a narrower term that is favored by publishers, then you can still make a case for steam being a DRM substitute.
Whatever way you say it, the effect of steam is make things tied to the platform (in it's intended usage), and thereby control access to you games.
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jimthev: This is a perfectly fine technical definition. The problem is that you immediately abandon it.
Your stated definition requires it to be a technology that limits the *usage*. You can *use* some Steam games wherever you want by copying off the game. Some will run completely without Steam. Get the game, delete Steam and they run. There for the generic "Steam" isn't a DRM for those games whatsoever since it doesn't even exist at *use* time. Extending a the common definition of use to include acquisition is a slippery slope that leads to the assimilation of GOG in the consequences.
Personally I don't know what the more restrictive definition could be that you speak of nor do I know how I would use it (assuming the you is not the generic third person, in which case I don't know how one would use it).
With a technical definition you can throw in stuff like "if it looks like it, it is it" those just don't work Feeling and appearance just don't count at that level. Intent and arbitrary assertions are irrelevant when talking at that level.
Now, my personal proffered definition would be a more 'general use one' (something I'd use when talking to an outside CEO) and that one would include the entire process and how a users rights are being limited. This is not the exact technical definition although many in this thread are using it or a milder version of it. Rarely is anybody here using that technical definition and understanding the consequences of using it. Mostly it is just a "wave your hands" discussion (which is fine as far as it goes and expected in an open forum).
Anyhow I've exceeded my personal allotment of general definition time on this concept and will step aside. Anybody on the boarder of whatever (I don't have a good word for it) has now seen the ideas, others know it, never will or *know* that I'm an idiot (which isn't out of the question, but probably not for the reasons one would believe).
you are splitting hairs. no definition of "DRM" can be all-inclusive in such an ever-changing digital landscape.
furthermore, i never abandoned anything. If you use steam as intended, you cannot delete it and run your games, period.
if you want to have a micromanaged dispute about an obtuse concept like "DRM," then you cannot just conveniently forget that steam is intended to be run in the background at all times.

the bottom line is, you know how steam works, i know how steam works, and we both know that it is intended to structure the usage of your games.
you can't structure without placing limits on usage, if you hadn't already figured that out.
if you are circumventing steam by deleting files and running games without the client, then you are using it outside of its intended form.
Posted September 26, 2010
The definition of DRM is so simple. Just look at what the acronym stands for: digital rights management.

Anything that attempts to limit your rights on how you use a piece of data is DRM.
Posted September 26, 2010
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Orryyrro: You can resell CD's, you can't resell an individual game from gog.
You can resell an individual game from GOG on a CD. (That's not legal, but that's not the point)
You can install a GOG game even if GOG would no longer exist. (you had to save its installer)
GOG is NOT a DRM. Steam is.
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Orryyrro: , you can only sell GOG game copies, not the original, since the original is on gog's server.
As every games sold on CDs. (As every music sold on discs)
What, they don't sell us their master software? What a shame!
(Hey he says vinyl discs are DRM)
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Ubersuntzu: The argument that Steam is bad DRM because their service goes down is fundamtally flawed.
Gog could go down too. Hard drives and files get corrupted. Thumb drives get lost. Your gog installers aren't any more permanent than a multimillion dollar company like Valve. If anything they're less permanent, because Valve will outlive your current computer.
And we are all dead because we can't be alive for ever.
Post edited September 26, 2010 by ERISS
Posted September 26, 2010
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k1o9s2s: Yes, I do. But even GOG staff have stated they have an issue with people pirating the games from here.. (Was one of their reasons for why GOG couldn't stay the way it was) so even here they still add to the desire of companies to stop that...
DRM free is attractive, no doubt. Sadly, it's always going to be abused.
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eyeball226: I don't follow.. Piracy was the reason GOG had to come out of beta... lolwut?
Forget it, that guy is either high or so illogical it's useless trying to communicate. I'm happy to converse with folks who hold opposing viewpoints if they can make cogent statements, but seriously, that post made no sense whatsoever. Nothing changed on GOG between beta and the "release" that would affect whether the games could be pirated or not.
Posted September 26, 2010
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Faithful: Are those for real???
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Stuff: Absolutely, just Google "steam errors" under images or something to that effect. I copied those off of steam error images posted on the steam forum.
Edit: It's been a while back, might have been "Valve errors" - but they are legit.
Here you go . . . =)
Well that's quite obvious. Of course there's an error message if your modem is off and you can't connect to the service.
Steam is ALWAYS up, it has a better uptime than my or possibly yours internet provider.
When they need to shut down (never more than a mere hour, and that only means you cannot download or browse the store, not that you can't play the games you have) they always advise long before.
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ERISS: You can resell an individual game from GOG on a CD. (That's not legal, but that's not the point)
what? that would be piracy, your point makes no sense. Buying from GOG you have LESS rights than a retail product, you don't have the right to resell something
Post edited September 26, 2010 by Eclipse
Posted September 26, 2010
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Eclipse: Buying from GOG you have LESS rights than a retail product, you don't have the right to resell something
But that's not the point:
Here you can pirate, for GOG does not compell us with a DRM.
I just don't want DRM, so I buy the GOG's games (and I don't resell them).
As long as GOG and I are happy, I don't care about piracy.
Let the very poors or the idiots pirate, as long as the idiots don't destroy the economy (but you can see the economy destroyers are not these little pirates, as the destroyers are intelligent, big, and officials).
Post edited September 26, 2010 by ERISS
Posted September 26, 2010
and so i'm happy with Steam, as they offer the greatest service ever happened to PC gaming hands down for just having the software installed, something I would keep even if the games were DRM-free.

As long as I can play my games without problems and I also have benefits no other service can provide I'm ok with them protecting their software in a non intrusive way for me.

All the "but you can't delete steam and run the games without" discussion is pointless, as I don't have the reason to do so.
I'm not denying about Steam using DRMs, I'm just saying that's not a big deal, it doesn't affect my everyday gaming routine, and the whole service only makes it better.

In the end, if you hate steam that much only because it doesn't allow you to manually copy games around without installing the client or downloading them from the server, well, your loss. Every service has it's pro and cons, and for me Steam has a whole lot of pros that easily cover for anything else
Posted September 26, 2010
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bioform: The definition of DRM is so simple. Just look at what the acronym stands for: digital rights management.
Anything that attempts to limit your rights on how you use a piece of data is DRM.
Using this definition, I conclude the following: I can't resell GOG games, ergo GOG uses DRM.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)Is Steam DRM?(329 posts)(329 posts)
(329 posts)