Regarding the movie, I have it on good authority that, contrary to what the movie shows, Lincoln was not in fact English.

Am i the only one finding that there isn't enough roger moore in this thread ?

There isn't enough roger moore in this thread.

Just don't let any any Val Kilmer in the thread.

Very True

The concept of a religious saint is not universal. There are some religious sects that feel it is blasphemous to elevate a person to that level. It is very interesting for me to view other sects in thier naked beliefs. I enjoy wachting others perform their sects rituals and even engage in sects rituals myself when the opportunity arises. You could say I have a very active sects life, though it has slowed down a bit as I have gotten older. It seems that when I was younger sects was all I could think about. My only goal in life was to experience as much sects as possible. Although if offered a chanch for a world wide sects tour I would not turn it down.

Post of the year.

What about Jimmy Saville? Surely someone knighted by the Catholic pope could do no wrong?

:P

You're wrong about him as well. Now, before anyone goes apeshit on me, yes, what he did was awesome and we should all be grateful for it, but he had his shortcomings like anyone else. We tend to idealize people for their accomplishments, I guess that's great, when I'm gone maybe people will remember mostly the good things about me, rather than those times when I was an asshole.

Just like computers eh?

The disscussion about good and evil would be a new thread. Anyway I just wanted to clearify, that also a christan saint could have done something wrong in his life. For example the founder of the Jesuits: St. Ignatius of Loyola.
He was a warrior befor he started following Christ (another example would be St. Francis of Assisi).

The general meaning of saint differs quite a lot. For some crazy guys even the 9/11 terrorists are saints.

For a christan only a man/woman who really gives his life to god and to the people is a saint. He or she will be not perfect, not skillful enought... Those people become saints, because of god.

"You are to be holy to me because I, the LORD, am holy" (Lev 20:26)

Actually, I couldn't say what freaks me out most, between saints (according to what epoch, what sociocultural standards, what background knowledge for evaluation of an act's consequence and signification ?) and people who believe in sanctity.

More generally speaking, purity, and claims of purity (for oneself or others), as well as heroisation, and personality cults, freak me out. Saints are basically the sum of all that.

I am not sure what you mean by "crazy" in this context - speaking about religious saints gained by martyrdom is all about perspective. Your terrorist is someone else's saint, because they gave their lives for (their) holy war. Now I am not expert in christian saints, but if we examined all them in detail, I am pretty that muslims could call some of them terrorists instead. You know, all those crusades werent exactly bloodless nor did they even end up where they were supposed to - the fourth crusade being good example ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Crusade ).

But I am going offtopic. Sorry.

I simply wanted to point out, that the "measure" of religious saint depends alot of your point of view, or if you will - faith.

No offense ment to any christian or muslim.

With "crazy" I mean, that those people declare those terrorists saints, because they killed a lot of people. Maybe you are right and "crazy" is not the best word.

That is my point. In my opinion I can't declare one a saint, because he is a murderer. In the opinon of some fundamentalists people who died in a 'holy' war are saints.

I personally stay with the christan opinon of who is a saint. Just like Jesus said: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’” Matthew 22:36-39

Saints are not personality cults in the first place. Maybe some people make this out of saints. A real religious saint don't prestent himself as the purest or the strongest hero of all time. That would be wrong, totally wrong. A real religious saint points out that there is someone greater than him: God

Without this base, each saint would be sensless and empty.

I'd like to add that the (Christian) concept of sainthood can be very compelling even to a non-believer like myself. As in, a lot of this shit is extremely romantic. There really isn't much that differentiates the veneration of saints from the veneration today's pop culture icons (from Luke Skywalker, to Batman, to any number of pop or rock musicians... really, the list is endless) receive. Only, in the former case the issue is much thornier, implicative, dangerous... well, romantic. And what with me measuring the worth of most things by how romantic they are, I have a lot of time for that stuff.