Posted November 20, 2009
Prator
Reasonable-ish
Prator Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Oct 2008
From United States
M15aNtHrOpE
AFGNCAAP
M15aNtHrOpE Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Feb 2009
From United States
Posted November 20, 2009
I have NWN Gold, and I really would like to play it....but it's just not very interesting. At all. IMO theres really no reason to play it, it has much of a narrative as World of Warcraft, and for a single-player RPG, that's just BAD. The combat mechanics are kind of cool, and the way the combat works is pretty cool, but taking on more than one monster at a time after the starting area is quite difficult. You're better off playing something else.
dougaiton
New User
dougaiton Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Feb 2009
From United Kingdom
Posted November 20, 2009
Andy_Panthro: I'd start naming the RPGs I'd label "the worst" but that might derail the thread completely.
I take your point, but to be clear, NWN OC is the worst game I ever completed. That's a big difference between that and worst RPG I ever played.
The Diablo comparison is the waves of meaningless cookie-cutter enemies coming at you followed by a 'go-and-fetch' quest; rinse and repeat. In Diablo, that's enjoyable. In NWN, its frustratingly dull, considering they spawn out of mid-air and generally have no AI worthy of the name.
Sordid
Registered: Apr 2009
From Czech Republic
Posted November 20, 2009
Post edited November 20, 2009 by Sordid
sheepdragon
Ninja Detective
sheepdragon Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From Norway
Posted November 20, 2009
Strix: NWN = Great Single-Player Mods, not so much for the default Single-Player (minus HotU)
NWN 2 = Not as many Mods, better default Single-Player (mainly Mask of the Betrayer)
NWN 2 = Not as many Mods, better default Single-Player (mainly Mask of the Betrayer)
As far as MotB goes, the balancing was horrendous. Spirits and constructs, and fucking uber gnolls everywhere. Stealth based characters are pretty much unplayable in it.
Jekadu
Not a lake
Jekadu Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2009
From Sweden
Posted November 20, 2009
Neverwinter Nights vanilla had a terrible campaign. I had to force myself to complete the thing - I'd just put too much time into the game to not see the ending. Maybe I should have skipped the side quests. The biggest problem was repetition - the entire game used just a handful of terrain sets, and... It's difficult to explain how horrible it was. Every area looked exactly like the last one you visited with the same terrain set, and very little was done to spice up the surroundings - or maybe they tried and failed miserably. After trudging my way through dozens of sidequests involving the same generic-looking cave I was grossly disappointed to find out the final boss fight took place inside... yet another cave. I wanted to scream at this point. NWN is one of the ugliest games I've played, technically and aesthetically.
Another problem was the lack of rewards. About halfway through the game you stopped getting new stuff. All loot defaulted to +3 stuff. Everything. There might have been a few odd quest rewards here and there with an alignment or elemental damage modifier, but the thrill of exploring and finding shinies just evaporated completely after a while. From a character progression standpoint, that left levelling and roleplaying.
I can't actually recall if the roleplaying was good or not, but I assume it means it was a forgettable experience of soup kitchen versus orphanage slaughter with some arbitrary three-options-before-fight dialogue encounters. (Y'know, when you meet a friendly NPC, get three dialogue options which are basically love/fight/apathy and which all lead to a battle anyway and which have no effect on the game at all).
So, that leaves levelling. I played a Wizard, and if I recall correctly dinging took the longest to wear off in novelty. I mean, who doesn't like levelling up? Unfortunately, once you reached the upper tiers of spells, it was painfully obvious that all the "mechanics" had already been exhausted in the first four or five spell levels. High-level spells were either summoning spells (which were mostly very weak or easily dispelled) or instant death spells, or maybe the odd weak AoE. Reminds me a bit of the early Final Fantasy games, actually... Well, mostly I used metamagic feats to keep my repertoire up to date. Mostly Maximized Fireballs, until they stopped being viable, at least.
On the other hand, Shadows of Undrentide was a much more enjoyable experience. It didn't drag on nearly as much as the vanilla game - in fact, the 20 or so hours that could be squeezed from the campaign felt like it was just right. Oh, the plot was just a justification for smashing big things, you had to start at level one and it was a pretty linear experience, but on the whole it still felt much, much better than the vanilla game. Environments were more varied and felt a good deal more dynamic, thanks to all the little touches to give each area its own unique feeling; this made exploring feel more rewarding, despite the game's linearity. More varied item drops were also added to the game, to the point where itemizing became a fun progression path again.
Oh, and there was Deekin.
As for Hordes of the Underdark, well, I never really got into it, having other games on my mind (I got as far as the the area just past the lift), and a few days later my computer died. I recovered the save games (I think, might have to hook up my hard drive again), but why play NWN when I can play Unreal Engine 3-based games? :)
Ironically, despite being able to run Unreal Engine 3 games on full settings on my new rig, Neverwinter Nights 2 stutters even at mid-level settings. Gameplay-wise, the vanilla game is pretty much standard Obsidian fare: overambitious and falling a bit short on all accounts, especially the plot, where they tried to make it deep by squeezing in as many colourful characters as possible. It does fix most of the problems evident in the first game, although can the two really be compared?
Thank goodness for Mask of the Betrayer, however. This is the closest thing to Planescape: Torment I've played, plot-wise. Combat never feels unmotivated, story is absolutely superb with loads of replay value (hmm, I only ever played it once...) and the game feels like it's just the right length at about 20-25 hours. Unfortunately the spirit-eater mechanic kind of sucks - even though I was playing as a Paladin and only did the "nice" soul-eater thing (What was it again?), it still felt annoying that I had to remember to look at the meter as if it was the radiation meter from Fallout, despite the fact that it took ages for it to drop even one point.
Another problem was the lack of rewards. About halfway through the game you stopped getting new stuff. All loot defaulted to +3 stuff. Everything. There might have been a few odd quest rewards here and there with an alignment or elemental damage modifier, but the thrill of exploring and finding shinies just evaporated completely after a while. From a character progression standpoint, that left levelling and roleplaying.
I can't actually recall if the roleplaying was good or not, but I assume it means it was a forgettable experience of soup kitchen versus orphanage slaughter with some arbitrary three-options-before-fight dialogue encounters. (Y'know, when you meet a friendly NPC, get three dialogue options which are basically love/fight/apathy and which all lead to a battle anyway and which have no effect on the game at all).
So, that leaves levelling. I played a Wizard, and if I recall correctly dinging took the longest to wear off in novelty. I mean, who doesn't like levelling up? Unfortunately, once you reached the upper tiers of spells, it was painfully obvious that all the "mechanics" had already been exhausted in the first four or five spell levels. High-level spells were either summoning spells (which were mostly very weak or easily dispelled) or instant death spells, or maybe the odd weak AoE. Reminds me a bit of the early Final Fantasy games, actually... Well, mostly I used metamagic feats to keep my repertoire up to date. Mostly Maximized Fireballs, until they stopped being viable, at least.
On the other hand, Shadows of Undrentide was a much more enjoyable experience. It didn't drag on nearly as much as the vanilla game - in fact, the 20 or so hours that could be squeezed from the campaign felt like it was just right. Oh, the plot was just a justification for smashing big things, you had to start at level one and it was a pretty linear experience, but on the whole it still felt much, much better than the vanilla game. Environments were more varied and felt a good deal more dynamic, thanks to all the little touches to give each area its own unique feeling; this made exploring feel more rewarding, despite the game's linearity. More varied item drops were also added to the game, to the point where itemizing became a fun progression path again.
Oh, and there was Deekin.
As for Hordes of the Underdark, well, I never really got into it, having other games on my mind (I got as far as the the area just past the lift), and a few days later my computer died. I recovered the save games (I think, might have to hook up my hard drive again), but why play NWN when I can play Unreal Engine 3-based games? :)
Ironically, despite being able to run Unreal Engine 3 games on full settings on my new rig, Neverwinter Nights 2 stutters even at mid-level settings. Gameplay-wise, the vanilla game is pretty much standard Obsidian fare: overambitious and falling a bit short on all accounts, especially the plot, where they tried to make it deep by squeezing in as many colourful characters as possible. It does fix most of the problems evident in the first game, although can the two really be compared?
Thank goodness for Mask of the Betrayer, however. This is the closest thing to Planescape: Torment I've played, plot-wise. Combat never feels unmotivated, story is absolutely superb with loads of replay value (hmm, I only ever played it once...) and the game feels like it's just the right length at about 20-25 hours. Unfortunately the spirit-eater mechanic kind of sucks - even though I was playing as a Paladin and only did the "nice" soul-eater thing (What was it again?), it still felt annoying that I had to remember to look at the meter as if it was the radiation meter from Fallout, despite the fact that it took ages for it to drop even one point.
Tsunami
Good old tsunami
Tsunami Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jul 2009
From United Arab Emirates
Posted November 20, 2009
The WORST? I don't think you've played enough RPGs, then, friend. I've played games that were far more boring than NWN; the worst accusation I could level at NWN is that it is very average.
I've been a gamer since 1989 and I've played a lot of RPGs since then.
I think you're being way too generous with the 'average' rating unless you're counting indies. Heck, make that even if you're counting indies. It was really awful for a big-name game from a reputed developer.
barleyguy
Just a dude
barleyguy Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted November 20, 2009
Tsunami:
The WORST? I don't think you've played enough RPGs, then, friend. I've played games that were far more boring than NWN; the worst accusation I could level at NWN is that it is very average.
I've been a gamer since 1989 and I've played a lot of RPGs since then.
I think you're being way too generous with the 'average' rating unless you're counting indies. Heck, make that even if you're counting indies. It was really awful for a big-name game from a reputed developer.
The WORST? I don't think you've played enough RPGs, then, friend. I've played games that were far more boring than NWN; the worst accusation I could level at NWN is that it is very average.
I've been a gamer since 1989 and I've played a lot of RPGs since then.
I think you're being way too generous with the 'average' rating unless you're counting indies. Heck, make that even if you're counting indies. It was really awful for a big-name game from a reputed developer.
"Worst" might be a stretch, though I guess if I'm going to say it's not I should come up with an example of something worse. I agree that the NWN single player was pretty sub-par. The story was pretty drab, and the world doesn't have a living, breathing feel like, for example, Morrowind. It's more like a static set piece with obvious triggers for events, like "Step into this room and X happens, or talk to this person and Y happens.". It's a pretty good way to build a toolset that makes it easy for the community to build modules. But as a standalone experience I didn't particularly enjoy it.
Collie
Occasional Cad
Collie Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2009
From United Kingdom
Posted November 20, 2009
barleyguy: "Worst" might be a stretch, though I guess if I'm going to say it's not I should come up with an example of something worse. I agree that the NWN single player was pretty sub-par. The story was pretty drab, and the world doesn't have a living, breathing feel like, for example, Morrowind. It's more like a static set piece with obvious triggers for events, like "Step into this room and X happens, or talk to this person and Y happens.". It's a pretty good way to build a toolset that makes it easy for the community to build modules. But as a standalone experience I didn't particularly enjoy it.
Morrowind has a living breathing feel? You joking? Whilst the game world is huge, it is totally lifeless. There are ZERO characters in the entire game. No-one has any personality thanks to the way the conversation system works (everyone repeats the exact same things) and aside from attacking you if you steal something, they don't react to anything that goes on. The NPCs just aimlessly wander about the same places be it morning, noon or night. 99% of quests just involve you going to place A to talk to person B or collect object C and return it to the original quest giver. There is no feeling of intrigue, no great dialogue to move the story on, and barely a set piece or surprise in the entire game. It is a huge but incredibly shallow adventure. I were to liken a RPG to some kind of swimming pool, Morrowind would be the world's biggest paddling pool - it's huge, but ultimately swallow throughout.
Regarding NWM, I think Whitecroc's analysis of NWN single player is spot on, it feels like a bland 'toolkit' adventure rather than a proper game. No atmosphere whatsover. Plus the fact you can respawn easily and cheapily with your helper friend to continue a battle when you die (if I recall) takes away all the challenge. I got to the second act and gave up. It was pathetic. I might as well play some amateur RPG Maker effort, there's about as much originality in those than there is in NWN.
TaliaKirana
Lurker
TaliaKirana Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted November 20, 2009
*sighs* I'll give you that the OC campaign isn't spectacular. But there are many excellent modules out there that are great.
Morrowind's one of my favorite games. I dunno why you're saying it's completely lifeless. I agree it had a problem with generic dialogue for the minor NPCs, but there was some very nice and clever writing for the NPCs involved in the main quest.
Morrowind's one of my favorite games. I dunno why you're saying it's completely lifeless. I agree it had a problem with generic dialogue for the minor NPCs, but there was some very nice and clever writing for the NPCs involved in the main quest.
barleyguy
Just a dude
barleyguy Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted November 20, 2009
Collie: Morrowind has a living breathing feel? You joking? Whilst the game world is huge, it is totally lifeless. There are ZERO characters in the entire game. No-one has any personality thanks to the way the conversation system works (everyone repeats the exact same things) and aside from attacking you if you steal something, they don't react to anything that goes on. The NPCs just aimlessly wander about the same places be it morning, noon or night. 99% of quests just involve you going to place A to talk to person B or collect object C and return it to the original quest giver. There is no feeling of intrigue, no great dialogue to move the story on, and barely a set piece or surprise in the entire game. It is a huge but incredibly shallow adventure. I were to liken a RPG to some kind of swimming pool, Morrowind would be the world's biggest paddling pool - it's huge, but ultimately swallow throughout.
Regarding NWM, I think Whitecroc's analysis of NWN single player is spot on, it feels like a bland 'toolkit' adventure rather than a proper game. No atmosphere whatsover. Plus the fact you can respawn easily and cheapily with your helper friend to continue a battle when you die (if I recall) takes away all the challenge. I got to the second act and gave up. It was pathetic. I might as well play some amateur RPG Maker effort, there's about as much originality in those than there is in NWN.
Regarding NWM, I think Whitecroc's analysis of NWN single player is spot on, it feels like a bland 'toolkit' adventure rather than a proper game. No atmosphere whatsover. Plus the fact you can respawn easily and cheapily with your helper friend to continue a battle when you die (if I recall) takes away all the challenge. I got to the second act and gave up. It was pathetic. I might as well play some amateur RPG Maker effort, there's about as much originality in those than there is in NWN.
Morrowind may not have been the best example. But compared to NWN, the world at least feels coherent, instead of having such an obvious trigger structure that it feels contrived.
CaptainGyro
GogPartyPooper
CaptainGyro Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Aug 2009
From United States
Posted November 20, 2009
some of these later replies calling the single player horrible is making me worried about my purchase. And for some reason the premium modules are choppy when I play them. Oh well.
Others have said the multiplayer is where the game is at , and I will try that one day. I just don''t feel like playing multiplayer yet with people who have been playing the game for years and years
Others have said the multiplayer is where the game is at , and I will try that one day. I just don''t feel like playing multiplayer yet with people who have been playing the game for years and years
deoren
♥ GOG ♥
deoren Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Oct 2008
From United States
TaliaKirana
Lurker
TaliaKirana Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2008
From United States
Posted November 20, 2009
Ooh, I remember that one. It was well-done and one of the few places where a choice had a major effect,
CaptainGyro
GogPartyPooper
CaptainGyro Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Aug 2009
From United States
Posted November 20, 2009
CaptainGyro: some of these later replies calling the single player horrible is making me worried about my purchase.
deoren: I'd suggest trying not to let other opinions color your expectations too much and go into it with an open mind. I am actually pretty sure I will find enjoyment from it. In my experience from gaming message boards (gaf for example), I usually am much more easily entertained by games compared to a lot of gamers. I try to have fun and not let the weak points ruin the game for me