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Johnathanamz: Your only gonna have indie video game developers and indie video game development companies release PC versions of video games natively for sale on Linux.

AAA video game publishing companies and AAA video game development companies will never release their PC versions of video games for sale on Linux only on Windows from AAA video game publishing companies like Activision, Bethesda Softworks, CapCom, Eidos interactive, Electronic Arts (EA), SQUARE-ENIX, Ubisoft, etc.

Crytek with CryEngine and Epic Games with Unreal Engine 4 don't count because as I said they are indie.

DICE worked with AMD to develop a brand new graphics API instead of using OpenGL for Frostbite 3 and AMD's Mantle API translates DirectX 11's HLSL instead of OpenGL's GLSL.

Linux will not have 10% of the PC video games market by the end of 2014 or even 2015.

Linux is not for everyone.

I am getting sick and tired of people like hedwards and you who keep telling people how good Linux is and that everyone needs to switch from the claws of Microsoft's Windows to Linux.

I don't have a problem with PC gamers who play their PC versions of video games on Linux or want to play exclusively on Linux I don't give a damn what Operating System (OS) PC gamers purchase and play their PC versions of video games on. It is starting to get annoying seeing how much Linux gamers just because they hate Linux are trying to force PC gamers away from Windows to go to Linux.

You should be happy Microsoft even lets OpenGL work on Windows and that the video game development companies that Microsoft owns Microsoft lets them develop the PC versions of their video games for Linux and Mac as well as use OpenGL if they want to.
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hedwards: That's because you're a troll that has never actually used Linux.
I did use Linux to mine BitCoins with AMD graphic cards because Linux is more efficient at mining BitCoins than Windows.
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shmerl: Often people mean different things when saying "indie" or "AAA" So let's clarify what it can mean.

Normally, "indie" stands for independent. I.e. a studio which can release games without getting money from external publishers which would dictate them what and how to release. For example CD Projekt Red are an independent studio so their games can be called indie. AAA in this context means a game funded by external publisher (let's say some kind of Ubisoft or whatever) which placed demands on development studio (such as "don't release games for Linux" or whatever).

Another common way of understanding these terms is orthogonal. By "indie" people simply mean low budget games, and by AAA big budget (regardless of where the funds come from). In these terms for example CD Projekt Red make AAA games, since their budgets are quite big.

So let's go back to your statement. You mixed up both of these definitions in one sentence I think. You mentioned publishers which fund games (one way of meaning AAA) as well as big budget games (another way of meaning AAA). And you made a sweeping statement that neither will release games for Linux.

You may be right that EA or Ubisoft are not interested in Linux. Their backwards thinking as well causes them to use DRM for example. So who cares about what they are interested in. Independent studios which release big budget games however is another matter. Studios like CD Projekt Red or inXile or Larian already showed interest in Linux games. And they release big budget games, they aren't some amateurs like some people usually think of independent studios.

However that's not stopping on such independent studios as well. Publisher funded games also start appearing on Linux (such as funded by Deep Silver for example). This will snowball to the point that even backwards thinking publishers like EA will get interested. But again, I personally don't care, since most of their games are sick with DRM anyway.

And you base numbers on what? On pure speculation? Real numbers show that percentage of Linux sales is pretty high (around 10% or more for some games). Humble Bundle already demonstrated that. So potential is there, and it's there already now, not in 2015 or later. It can of course grow and it will grow.

Not according to developers who see it as an opportunity. And not according to companies like Valve which even are working on consumer market products using Linux like their gaming console.

It's your own problem that your expectations don't match the reality. Just sit and relax and see events unfold. Linux will even overtake Windows as a gaming platform at some point.

DirectX domination is coming to an end. It was at its peak not long ago, but it will go only down the slope onwards together with decline of Windows usage itself. And it seems that Valve is that straw which broke their back. It won't happen overnight, but it will happen pretty gradually. You can revisit this matter in a year or two from now to see how it will progress.

It's good to point out that GOG joining the list of gaming distributors helps this process as well, since GOG will be able to provide additional feedback for developers and potential publishers about Linux sales which will help increasing their interest in releasing games for Linux.
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Johnathanamz: Ok I know what AAA and indie means I use AAA for big budget video game publishing companies and video game development companies.

That's why I didn't mention 2K Games and Deep Silver because they are releasing the PC versions of their video games for Linux as well.

See there you go you proved my point 10% for some video games I am talking about the whole Linux market it's not at 10% and it will never grow to 90+% of the Windows market or even 50% I have been hearing Linux is the future of video games since like 2001 or 2002.

VALVe is working on developing a video game console that runs on Linux sure but most people who will purchase a Steambox will just install Windows. I already read comments from a lot of people on a lot of websites on the internet who will do this like. I even talked to quite a few friends of my real life friends who are going to do this around 10+ people I talked to. I have 100 real life friends who all purchase and play their video games on PC on Windows only out of those 100 real life friend about 12+ of my real life friends do not want to purchase PC versions of video games that support OpenGL only DirectX.

Your funny everything I said is more realistic Linux will never overtake Windows as a video game platform. End of discussion.

DirectX is still dominating look at AMD's Mantle API it translates DirectX 11's HLSA not OpenGL's GLSL. The rest of 2014, 2015, and beyond hundreds of PC versions of video games will be using DirectX 11 and DirectX 12.

You just love Linux so much that it's clouding up your vision of what the future is.

Quite a lot of fortune 500 companies have a partnership with Microsoft to use Windows in their offices like Intel. Intel strictly forbids using Linux. Intel only uses Linux for server and Research and Development (R&D) that's it.

NASA and a lot of government agencies use Windows and won't switch to Linux. The U.S. Government pays Microsoft a lot of money to use Windows.
Despite the fact that Linux delivers higher FPS than Windows does and doesn't require you to shell out several hundred dollars every few years?

I get that you're a troll, but could you at least try and make the trolling plausible.
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shmerl: Often people mean different things when saying "indie" or "AAA" So let's clarify what it can mean.

Normally, "indie" stands for independent. I.e. a studio which can release games without getting money from external publishers which would dictate them what and how to release. For example CD Projekt Red are an independent studio so their games can be called indie. AAA in this context means a game funded by external publisher (let's say some kind of Ubisoft or whatever) which placed demands on development studio (such as "don't release games for Linux" or whatever).

Another common way of understanding these terms is orthogonal. By "indie" people simply mean low budget games, and by AAA big budget (regardless of where the funds come from). In these terms for example CD Projekt Red make AAA games, since their budgets are quite big.

So let's go back to your statement. You mixed up both of these definitions in one sentence I think. You mentioned publishers which fund games (one way of meaning AAA) as well as big budget games (another way of meaning AAA). And you made a sweeping statement that neither will release games for Linux.

You may be right that EA or Ubisoft are not interested in Linux. Their backwards thinking as well causes them to use DRM for example. So who cares about what they are interested in. Independent studios which release big budget games however is another matter. Studios like CD Projekt Red or inXile or Larian already showed interest in Linux games. And they release big budget games, they aren't some amateurs like some people usually think of independent studios.

However that's not stopping on such independent studios as well. Publisher funded games also start appearing on Linux (such as funded by Deep Silver for example). This will snowball to the point that even backwards thinking publishers like EA will get interested. But again, I personally don't care, since most of their games are sick with DRM anyway.

And you base numbers on what? On pure speculation? Real numbers show that percentage of Linux sales is pretty high (around 10% or more for some games). Humble Bundle already demonstrated that. So potential is there, and it's there already now, not in 2015 or later. It can of course grow and it will grow.

Not according to developers who see it as an opportunity. And not according to companies like Valve which even are working on consumer market products using Linux like their gaming console.

It's your own problem that your expectations don't match the reality. Just sit and relax and see events unfold. Linux will even overtake Windows as a gaming platform at some point.

DirectX domination is coming to an end. It was at its peak not long ago, but it will go only down the slope onwards together with decline of Windows usage itself. And it seems that Valve is that straw which broke their back. It won't happen overnight, but it will happen pretty gradually. You can revisit this matter in a year or two from now to see how it will progress.

It's good to point out that GOG joining the list of gaming distributors helps this process as well, since GOG will be able to provide additional feedback for developers and potential publishers about Linux sales which will help increasing their interest in releasing games for Linux.
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Johnathanamz: Ok I know what AAA and indie means I use AAA for big budget video game publishing companies and video game development companies.

That's why I didn't mention 2K Games and Deep Silver because they are releasing the PC versions of their video games for Linux as well.

See there you go you proved my point 10% for some video games I am talking about the whole Linux market it's not at 10% and it will never grow to 90+% of the Windows market or even 50% I have been hearing Linux is the future of video games since like 2001 or 2002.

VALVe is working on developing a video game console that runs on Linux sure but most people who will purchase a Steambox will just install Windows. I already read comments from a lot of people on a lot of websites on the internet who will do this like. I even talked to quite a few friends of my real life friends who are going to do this around 10+ people I talked to. I have 100 real life friends who all purchase and play their video games on PC on Windows only out of those 100 real life friend about 12+ of my real life friends do not want to purchase PC versions of video games that support OpenGL only DirectX.
Wait, you're saying that you know a bunch of people who only want to buy games that support DirectX and nothing else? Like if a game supports both Direct X AND Open GL it would actually put them off, even though its potentially more 'future proof'?

Besides, until SteamOS is released no-one knows what it can or can't do, it might have all sorts of windows compatibility jiggery pokery, they may have even reverse engineered and implemented native DirectX support in a Linux Distro for all we know right now...
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Johnathanamz: Ok I know what AAA and indie means I use AAA for big budget video game publishing companies and video game development companies.

That's why I didn't mention 2K Games and Deep Silver because they are releasing the PC versions of their video games for Linux as well.

See there you go you proved my point 10% for some video games I am talking about the whole Linux market it's not at 10% and it will never grow to 90+% of the Windows market or even 50% I have been hearing Linux is the future of video games since like 2001 or 2002.

VALVe is working on developing a video game console that runs on Linux sure but most people who will purchase a Steambox will just install Windows. I already read comments from a lot of people on a lot of websites on the internet who will do this like. I even talked to quite a few friends of my real life friends who are going to do this around 10+ people I talked to. I have 100 real life friends who all purchase and play their video games on PC on Windows only out of those 100 real life friend about 12+ of my real life friends do not want to purchase PC versions of video games that support OpenGL only DirectX.

Your funny everything I said is more realistic Linux will never overtake Windows as a video game platform. End of discussion.

DirectX is still dominating look at AMD's Mantle API it translates DirectX 11's HLSA not OpenGL's GLSL. The rest of 2014, 2015, and beyond hundreds of PC versions of video games will be using DirectX 11 and DirectX 12.

You just love Linux so much that it's clouding up your vision of what the future is.

Quite a lot of fortune 500 companies have a partnership with Microsoft to use Windows in their offices like Intel. Intel strictly forbids using Linux. Intel only uses Linux for server and Research and Development (R&D) that's it.

NASA and a lot of government agencies use Windows and won't switch to Linux. The U.S. Government pays Microsoft a lot of money to use Windows.
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hedwards: Despite the fact that Linux delivers higher FPS than Windows does and doesn't require you to shell out several hundred dollars every few years?

I get that you're a troll, but could you at least try and make the trolling plausible.
Just so you know DirectX 9 will soon deliver higher FPS because Nvidia is working with Microsoft to further optimize DirectX 9, DirectX 10, and DirectX 11 to have low overhead just like OpenGL and AMD's Mantle API.

So that low FPS on DirectX 9 vs OpenGL that VALVe did with Left 4 Dead will soon come to an end.

Nvidia representatives said that they are planning to make sure that DirectX 9 and DirectX 10 gets more draw calls for FPS increases than AMD's Mantle APi.
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Johnathanamz: Sorry but Windows is here to stay for another 20 years.
If you mean desktop (PC) Windows, frankly I am starting to have my doubts, because even MS doesn't seem to fully believe in it anymore, or at least seems to hope that home users would abandon PCs, and migrate to Windows RT tablets and XBoxOne instead. Office (corporate) Windows may be a different thing, MS may be still more committed to that.

This also shows in MS lack of commitment to PC gaming, first they pretty much stopped publishing PC games anymore (and concentrated into XBox games instead), later they decided to terminate GFWL instead of improving it and trying to make it a viable alternative to e.g. Steam, and so on.

It might be MS makes a full comeback to home PC Windows market if they fail with mobile Windows RT (and especially if XBoxOne fails for some reason), but until that I am not holding my breath, and see MS showing less and less interest to home PCs and PC gaming. Heck, some MS reps even like to talk about "post-PC devices" in interviews, as in PCs being something that belongs to the past.

I think that is also one (but not the only) of the major reasons why Valve decided to go ahead with SteamOS: to take matters in their own hands regarding PC gaming, as MS gives quite unclear signals what its intentions are for the future of home PC Windows.
Post edited May 07, 2014 by timppu
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Johnathanamz: Ok I know what AAA and indie means I use AAA for big budget video game publishing companies and video game development companies.

That's why I didn't mention 2K Games and Deep Silver because they are releasing the PC versions of their video games for Linux as well.

See there you go you proved my point 10% for some video games I am talking about the whole Linux market it's not at 10% and it will never grow to 90+% of the Windows market or even 50% I have been hearing Linux is the future of video games since like 2001 or 2002.

VALVe is working on developing a video game console that runs on Linux sure but most people who will purchase a Steambox will just install Windows. I already read comments from a lot of people on a lot of websites on the internet who will do this like. I even talked to quite a few friends of my real life friends who are going to do this around 10+ people I talked to. I have 100 real life friends who all purchase and play their video games on PC on Windows only out of those 100 real life friend about 12+ of my real life friends do not want to purchase PC versions of video games that support OpenGL only DirectX.
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Fever_Discordia: Wait, you're saying that you know a bunch of people who only want to buy games that support DirectX and nothing else? Like if a game supports both Direct X AND Open GL it would actually put them off, even though its potentially more 'future proof'?

Besides, until SteamOS is released no-one knows what it can or can't do, it might have all sorts of windows compatibility jiggery pokery, they may have even reverse engineered and implemented native DirectX support in a Linux Distro for all we know right now...
For older games that's certainly a possibility. For newer games I would expect them to have cross platform libraries to handle most of those details. Doing hacks like that is far more expensive in the long run than just doing a proper set of libraries to handle the different platforms.

DirectX games have been working under Linux for quite some time now, it's mostly the newer versions that aren't as well supported. And at any rate, because of the underlying hardware it's mostly a matter of wrapping calls.
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Johnathanamz: Sorry but Windows is here to stay for another 20 years.
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timppu: If you mean desktop (PC) Windows, frankly I am starting to have my doubts, because even MS doesn't seem to fully believe in it anymore, or at least seems to hope that at least home users would abandon PCs, and migrate to Windows RT tablets and XBoxOne instead. Office (corporate) Windows may be a different thing, MS may be still more committed to that.

This also shows in MS lack of commitment to PC gaming, first they pretty much stopped publishing PC games anymore (and concentrated into XBox games instead), later they decided to terminate GFWL instead of improving it and trying to make it a viable alternative to e.g. Steam, and so on.

It might be MS makes a full comeback to home PC Windows market if they fail with mobile Windows RT (and especially if XBoxOne fails for some reason), but until that I am not holding my breath, and see MS showing less and less interest to home PCs and PC gaming. Heck, some MS reps even like to talk about "post-PC devices" in interviews, as in PCs being something that belongs to the past.

I think that is also one (but not the only) of the major reasons why Valve decided to go ahead with SteamOS: to take matters in their own hands regarding PC gaming, as MS gives quite unclear signals what its intentions are for the future of home PC Windows.
When I say PC it counts for Windows, Linux, and Mac.

It annoys me when people say Windows is PC both Linux and Mac is PC as well PC stands for Personal Computer (PC).
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Johnathanamz: Sorry but Windows is here to stay for another 20 years.
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timppu: If you mean desktop (PC) Windows, frankly I am starting to have my doubts, because even MS doesn't seem to fully believe in it anymore, or at least seems to hope that home users would abandon PCs, and migrate to Windows RT tablets and XBoxOne instead. Office (corporate) Windows may be a different thing, MS may be still more committed to that.

This also shows in MS lack of commitment to PC gaming, first they pretty much stopped publishing PC games anymore (and concentrated into XBox games instead), later they decided to terminate GFWL instead of improving it and trying to make it a viable alternative to e.g. Steam, and so on.

It might be MS makes a full comeback to home PC Windows market if they fail with mobile Windows RT (and especially if XBoxOne fails for some reason), but until that I am not holding my breath, and see MS showing less and less interest to home PCs and PC gaming. Heck, some MS reps even like to talk about "post-PC devices" in interviews, as in PCs being something that belongs to the past.

I think that is also one (but not the only) of the major reasons why Valve decided to go ahead with SteamOS: to take matters in their own hands regarding PC gaming, as MS gives quite unclear signals what its intentions are for the future of home PC Windows.
I believe the main reason that Valve is doing this is to prevent them from being in the position of being frozen out in case MS decided to really push their own app store. But, this is certainly another reason that they presumably were considering, having their own distro would go along way towards ensuring that there was a PC platform that they could support no matter what MS or Apple chose to do.
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timppu: If you mean desktop (PC) Windows, frankly I am starting to have my doubts, because even MS doesn't seem to fully believe in it anymore, or at least seems to hope that at least home users would abandon PCs, and migrate to Windows RT tablets and XBoxOne instead. Office (corporate) Windows may be a different thing, MS may be still more committed to that.

This also shows in MS lack of commitment to PC gaming, first they pretty much stopped publishing PC games anymore (and concentrated into XBox games instead), later they decided to terminate GFWL instead of improving it and trying to make it a viable alternative to e.g. Steam, and so on.

It might be MS makes a full comeback to home PC Windows market if they fail with mobile Windows RT (and especially if XBoxOne fails for some reason), but until that I am not holding my breath, and see MS showing less and less interest to home PCs and PC gaming. Heck, some MS reps even like to talk about "post-PC devices" in interviews, as in PCs being something that belongs to the past.

I think that is also one (but not the only) of the major reasons why Valve decided to go ahead with SteamOS: to take matters in their own hands regarding PC gaming, as MS gives quite unclear signals what its intentions are for the future of home PC Windows.
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Johnathanamz: When I say PC it counts for Windows, Linux, and Mac.

It annoys me when people say Windows is PC both Linux and Mac is PC as well PC stands for Personal Computer (PC).
Actually, Android is built on Linux and is already a huge gaming platform while OSX and iOS are build on Apple's own opensource Unix-like OS called Darwin
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system[/url])
So virtually the entire mobile gaming market (except the 3 people still persevering with Windows phones) is running on some kind of open-source Unix variant!
I'm going to throw my hat into the ring in favour of Linux as well. I dual-boot Windows and Linux on my gaming PC, and I use Linux for everything except gaming (although my work PC uses Windows owing to the specialised software I use for work requires Windows and the DRM refuses to activate under WINE/Linux - the developer is partly-owned by Microsoft, natch). My laptop, on which I do most of my development work, runs Ubuntu 13.10 only, and I have absolutely no complaints with it. In fact, if all of my games ran on Linux, I'd ditch Windows in a heartbeat as it would be superfluous.

Windows doesn't actually offer any concrete advantages other than the fact that many games are Windows-exclusive. Ubuntu 13.10 runs faster, boots faster (2 minutes with Win7, including log-in and loading of all services, versus around 45 seconds with Ubuntu) and helps me get stuff done quicker than Win7.

If you want to game on PC, then there's no getting around Windows for the time being, but work on WINE is ongoing, and a surprisingly large amount of stuff from the GOG catalogue already runs on Linux, either through WINE, or through the Linux port of DOSBox (or through the Linux ports of those games, which won't be available on GOG until later this year).
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Johnathanamz: When I say PC it counts for Windows, Linux, and Mac.

It annoys me when people say Windows is PC both Linux and Mac is PC as well PC stands for Personal Computer (PC).
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Fever_Discordia: Actually, Android is built on Linux and is already a huge gaming platform while OSX and iOS are build on Apple's own opensource Unix-like OS called Darwin
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system[/url])
So virtually the entire mobile gaming market (except the 3 people still persevering with Windows phones) is running on some kind of open-source Unix variant!
Was this reply to me or to timppu? I am confused.
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jamyskis: I'm going to throw my hat into the ring in favour of Linux as well. I dual-boot Windows and Linux on my gaming PC, and I use Linux for everything except gaming (although my work PC uses Windows owing to the specialised software I use for work requires Windows and the DRM refuses to activate under WINE/Linux - the developer is partly-owned by Microsoft, natch). My laptop, on which I do most of my development work, runs Ubuntu 13.10 only, and I have absolutely no complaints with it. In fact, if all of my games ran on Linux, I'd ditch Windows in a heartbeat as it would be superfluous.

Windows doesn't actually offer any concrete advantages other than the fact that many games are Windows-exclusive. Ubuntu 13.10 runs faster, boots faster (2 minutes with Win7, including log-in and loading of all services, versus around 45 seconds with Ubuntu) and helps me get stuff done quicker than Win7.

If you want to game on PC, then there's no getting around Windows for the time being, but work on WINE is ongoing, and a surprisingly large amount of stuff from the GOG catalogue already runs on Linux, either through WINE, or through the Linux port of DOSBox (or through the Linux ports of those games, which won't be available on GOG until later this year).
Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 boots faster than Windows 7.
Post edited May 07, 2014 by Johnathanamz
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jamyskis: I'm going to throw my hat into the ring in favour of Linux as well. I dual-boot Windows and Linux on my gaming PC, and I use Linux for everything except gaming (although my work PC uses Windows owing to the specialised software I use for work requires Windows and the DRM refuses to activate under WINE/Linux - the developer is partly-owned by Microsoft, natch). My laptop, on which I do most of my development work, runs Ubuntu 13.10 only, and I have absolutely no complaints with it. In fact, if all of my games ran on Linux, I'd ditch Windows in a heartbeat as it would be superfluous.

Windows doesn't actually offer any concrete advantages other than the fact that many games are Windows-exclusive. Ubuntu 13.10 runs faster, boots faster (2 minutes with Win7, including log-in and loading of all services, versus around 45 seconds with Ubuntu) and helps me get stuff done quicker than Win7.

If you want to game on PC, then there's no getting around Windows for the time being, but work on WINE is ongoing, and a surprisingly large amount of stuff from the GOG catalogue already runs on Linux, either through WINE, or through the Linux port of DOSBox (or through the Linux ports of those games, which won't be available on GOG until later this year).
I have a pair of Win XP installs running in VM for a lot of the games that won't run on Linux properly. But, these days, I've also largely stopped buying PC games that won't run on Linux. I don't necessarily require them to run natively, but if they don't run at least using Wine, I won't buy them. Which leaves me such a ridiculously large number of games that I still have more than I can play.
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Johnathanamz: Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 boots faster than Windows 7.
No it doesn't - Windows 8/8.1 recovers from ACPI hibernation - what MS calls "fast boot". When booting afresh it takes more or less the same time as Win7.
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Johnathanamz: Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 boots faster than Windows 7.
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jamyskis: No it doesn't - Windows 8/8.1 recovers from ACPI hibernation - what MS calls "fast boot". When booting afresh it takes more or less the same time as Win7.
Well Windows 8 on my PC boots faster than Windows 7.
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Johnathanamz: When I say PC it counts for Windows, Linux, and Mac.
Yes but you said "Windows" will be around for another 20 years. I wanted to confirm whether you meant PC based desktop Windows releases, or does your claim include also "post-PC" Windows RT devices like smartphones and tablets.

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Johnathanamz: It annoys me when people say Windows is PC both Linux and Mac is PC as well PC stands for Personal Computer (PC).
I am unsure how that is irrelevant to this discussion, but just to be on the safe side, I specifically talked about "Windows (desktop) PC", just so that no one comes with that argument what are all the possible devices that "PC" covers.

Some also argue that smartphones and tablets are PCs. They are very much personal devices, and quite clearly they are also computers.
Post edited May 07, 2014 by timppu