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It just part of this new mentality: that games are a service. You know, I liked them better when they were toys.
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groze: Well, I got carried away, so... sorry. Just pretend this never happened and move on with your lives. And happy gaming. :P
No worries. You got a Plus from me, in addition to the OP.

I find it so sad that the digital world has become this uncontrollable beast of DRM, spying and horrible business practices. GOG is an oasis in the desert, and I hope they never dry up.

It has been so sad to see Humble Bundle, which at one point in time was pretty darn great, turn into a subsidiary of Steam (spit). I hope something like that never happens to GOG.
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C17: It just part of this new mentality: that games are a service. You know, I liked them better when they were toys.
I still see games as digital toys, and they should be sold with all basic parts working. Extras ought to be true 'accessories' and not missing wheels that should have shipped with the wind-up car in the first place.

Huzzah for GoG - they definitely understand this principle :)
Post edited February 18, 2014 by SalarShushan
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gooberking: I'm sure this isn't the first time someone is bringing this up, but is GoG the only vendor still releasing actual games? You might remember the kind. The ones that you pay money for today, get to play today, and are actually fully functional experiences where the zombies can't walk through walls.

Because everywhere else all I've seen for a while now is pre-purchase this, and early access that. It basically feels like it's reached about as cartoonish a level of near absurdity as I could imagine it getting to.
Yeah lately I've noticed most games available for purchase on Steam are early access games and it has been pissing me off. No, I do not want to purchase unfinished games and having them shoved into your face is annoying. Yes, the Steam store shoves them into your face. Would I go to IKEA and buy half a dish if I needed a dish? No. Then why would I go to a store and buy half of a game? I will stop respecting GOG if they start doing this shit too and most likely after that, I will probably quit buying new games. That is how annoying I find these early access alpha version games. They don't belong in stores. They belong on kickstarter.
Post edited February 18, 2014 by monkeydelarge
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groze: Well, I got carried away, so... sorry. Just pretend this never happened and move on with your lives. And happy gaming. :P
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Pangaea666: No worries. You got a Plus from me, in addition to the OP.

I find it so sad that the digital world has become this uncontrollable beast of DRM, spying and horrible business practices. GOG is an oasis in the desert, and I hope they never dry up.

It has been so sad to see Humble Bundle, which at one point in time was pretty darn great, turn into a subsidiary of Steam (spit). I hope something like that never happens to GOG.
Thank you so much for your kind words!

As for GOG, I have to say I have a good feeling they will stay true to their roots, I'm not overly worried about them becoming yet another faceless corporation of out-of-touch sellouts. In fact, this is what you read in the job description for Brand Director, one of the job offerings GOG is making:

GOG.com is already 5 years old! We have grown from being a small startup company to being the 2nd biggest independent distribution platform of PC & MAC games worldwide.
Fast growth means lots of projects to handle, new talented employees to welcome, partners to work with, media to amaze, business opportunities to evaluate and features to deploy. Enough to make us very busy and to be honest, sometimes we forget our roots...
The good news is, we need you -- our potential Brand Director -- to become the guardian of GOG's identity and make sure that we stay true to our core values of honesty, passion and creativity in any public action we take on the PR & Marketing side. We want to remain faithful to our brand no matter what, provide delight to gamers and amaze media. We don't want to become another soulless storefront. We want to remain GOG-ish and keep pushing the DRM-free revolution forward!
Is this a sign of hope, or what? I think it sure is. :P
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Schnuff: I think its a fantastic business idea.
For decades devs payed people to test their games for bugs.
Now players throw their money at them eager to play alpha/beta versions...simply excellent.
Oh, but they can make the game better because of the input from so many gamers......sometimes...it all depends on the devs....or why is nearly every game still bugged at release? (There are exceptions like Planetary Annihilation were the devs react to the input)
But its getting better.
Why selling an finished product? Older gamers may remember them, games that had an ending.
Isn't it far more better (for their bank account) if they sell parts of the game as DLC?
Previously those parts were included in the game. But than the player had to wait longer for
the finished version. Now they pay the same as for a finished version and than pay again for the full
experience maybe even as a Day One DLC.

For micro transactions..how should they make money with F2P games? As long as they are not unbalancing
the game (P2W) its OK.
People not being able to make money anymore from testing games is not excellent. You sound like you work for EA. This fantastic business idea is not fantastic for everyone.
Post edited February 18, 2014 by monkeydelarge
I do NOT think Early Access nor Kickstarter are the problem, instead I think they are exposing something that was already there.

I can go online and with enough searching about any book I could possibly want in whatever genre I feel like reading. If I want it, someone probably writes it.
The same goes for music. I can search around and find just about any music I feel in the mood for with enough digging.
I usually don't have to worry about it being popular enough to exist and I generally don't have to worry about the current fads dictating what I can and can't have.

I still cannot do this with games. It largely depends on the current fads and what is popular enough to exist that dictates what I can get.

If you think a store like Steam lets through too much stuff then you should see stores for what in my opinion are "sufficiently diverse" art forms like books and music. In this case by "sufficiently diverse" I mean doing a good enough job at providing something for everyone that the above doesn't become such an annoyance.

Gamers take risks buying games that may or may not be finished because they are not satisfied with what they can buy that is finished now. (Yeah I know that sounds so boringly straightforward)
Early Access and Kickstarter projects are a very popular right now because they're finding opportunity filling in gaps that nobody has bothered to fill as gaming grew in popularity so rapidly. Eventually those gaps will be filled and the demand for those projects won't be so high.

Personally, I haven't heard many arguments for more "quality control" or against Early Access and Kickstarter that don't also in some way translate to "I wish I could limit what you can buy because I don't want to have to think too hard about my purchasing decisions!".
Post edited February 18, 2014 by paul1290
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C17: It just part of this new mentality: that games are a service. You know, I liked them better when they were toys.
Maybe these early access games are really just an insidious way of getting gamers used to a future where all games start out as early access games and only reach a final and polished state if the game is popular enough? This way, publishers can make more money and never have to fear losing money. They can see how popular a game is or unpopular a game by the number of licenses sold and if a game is unpopular, they can just ditch the project and leave that game, forever in an alpha or beta state. I remember the game Medal Of Honor Pacific Assault. Right after it got released, the game was abandoned. Imagine how much money the publisher could of saved if they put the early access version up for sale and then decided to abandon the game. The douchebaggery in this industry knows no limits.
Post edited February 18, 2014 by monkeydelarge
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C17: It just part of this new mentality: that games are a service. You know, I liked them better when they were toys.
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monkeydelarge: Maybe these early access games are really just an insidious way of getting gamers used to a future where all games start out as early access games and only reach a final and polished state if the game is popular enough? This way, publishers can make more money and never have to fear losing money. They can see how popular a game is or unpopular a game by the number of licenses sold and if a game is unpopular, they can just ditch the project and leave that game, forever in an alpha or beta state. I remember the game Medal Of Honor Pacific Assault. Right after it got released, the game was abandoned. Imagine how much money the publisher could of saved if they put the early access version up for sale and then decided to abandon the game. The douchebaggery in this industry knows no limits.
The bulk of the games on Early Access don't have publishers, AAA titles don't use Early Access, and a lot of developers who have games on Steam still deliberately choose to not even use Early Access (at least not Steam's process of it).

I'm not saying it's impossible, but considering the above I find that this scenario requires coordination that at this point I find a bit unlikely.
If it does result in that, it seems like it would be more likely to be due to gamer culture and not by deliberate engineering attempt by a single group or individual.
Post edited February 18, 2014 by paul1290
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gbaz69: I've only one gripe with early access, is often it is TOO early, years go by and thouse we stop playing.
(has any steam early access game actualy left the early access state? maybe a large dev has or not)
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Niggles: There has been several ie Might and Magic X legacy and Blackguards were both on early access, also a scattering of others i couldnt' name (cant think of them right now).
Lack of distinction between early access and released games is, imho, major problem with Steam's early access. I personally think regular and early access stores should be entirely separated on their own pages and early access games should not be featured on regular store page (they'll get featured when they exit early access).

If GOG ever jumps on alpha/beta funding/early access bandwagon, I do hope they'll make separate area for it with it's own game catalog, forums etc. But then again, it may too late to jump on that bandwagon as steam has pretty much sucked the market dry of such games and sites like dusura are left with steams leftovers, games that could not pass steams greenlight.
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monkeydelarge: People not being able to make money anymore from testing games is not excellent. You sound like you work for EA. This fantastic business idea is not fantastic for everyone.
Were there actually beta's where the regular testers were paid something? I sure don't remember any. All you got was free access to the game and in some rare cases, the game it self for free upon release. I was under the impression that only internal beta testing teams and QA staff got paid and I'm sure major studios and publishing houses still have those. And small indes most definately did not pay, heck most of the time the testers were family members or close friends.
Post edited February 18, 2014 by Petrell
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TimTom92: I do know somewhat know where you're coming from.
It's like how some companies abuse DLC. I hate that.
This! I loathe DLC. I can live with 1-2 proper expansions. But small and mostly pointless DLCs are awful.
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TimTom92: I do know somewhat know where you're coming from.
It's like how some companies abuse DLC. I hate that.
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blotunga: This! I loathe DLC. I can live with 1-2 proper expansions. But small and mostly pointless DLCs are awful.
"Vanilla game has 5 music tracks but don't worry, we offer you more music tracks as DLC for with great bargain of 2€ per 2 tracks!"

"Yes, the vanilla models are low quality and generic but listen to this: we offer you nation specific unit packs in high quality for 4€ each! Now isn't that a bargain?"

"Horse armour. Now that's should sell it self!"

"Game offers 80 unit types, 20 of which come with base game and you can buy 60 more for 1€ each!"

;-p
I never understood why people who like alpha's and beta's should not be allowed to buy them and support development. For those who do not like it, the answer is simple - don't buy it.

Personally I feel gOg is missing out. With games like Divinity: Original Sin and Wasteland 2 (games more or less being confirmed to appear here) - those who like early access have now bought it from a different vendor, they had no choice. So for each of these lost sales - it is gOg's loss. Not the player, nor the developers, only gOg's.
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Petrell: ;-p
Game comes with 7 tracks, but you can pay 40% of the base game cost for 7 more. If you really enjoy them, we have 2 such map packs.
Game comes with 2 cars, but for an extra 40% you can get 2 more cars. What more do you need?

Test Drive 2, circa 1989.
Case in point - Tower of Guns (http://www.towerofguns.com/)

This is one of the most fun games I have played in the last 20 years. It is being developed by a single person, who quit his job to start up as an indie developer. He is partially financing this via alpha/beta sales, if he did not it is not sure how far it would have come.

It is now about 80% complete, and even if he stopped development today, it would still be one of the most fun games I have played in the last 20 years. I like to have been the opportunity to both have this experience, and to support what I think is a great game.

edit: and it is now verified that ToG is coming to gOg, which is great, but I already got the game in alpha from two different vendors before, and not sure if I am going to get it yet another time. Which is 1 lost sale for gOg....
Post edited February 18, 2014 by amok