Someone is a little touchy ... I'm not surprised to be honest. Apple hardware seems to make some people foam at the mouth.

Oh, you could write a DIFFERENT list about Android but none of the issues are as problematic as those of the iOS/iPhone/iPad.

The fact remains that Android has true multi tasking, open market, allows for off-market installs, lets you flash and modify the OS software as you wish, freely gives away SDK software, has no censure, has widgets, customizable UI, doesn't give Google the power to remove apps from your phone remotely (unlike Apple who has already done this), isn't tied to a single device, etc. All improvements anyone who isn't an iCult follower will agree with.

And unlike the iCult followers, I KNOW the weak points of the Android platform - the HTC series has poor Bluetooth support (because of licenses), many screens aren't true multi-touch screens (they work in grids), the possibility of adding off-market apps leaves the device open to malware (only a problem if you use pirated apps), the provider mods of the platforms (my biggest gripe), etc. but none of these are as vital as the iPhone/iPad weaknesses.

In the end, Android is available on many dozens of devices of dozens of brands with dozens of mobile providers. iOS is stuck to either a phone, music player or tablet, that's it. Stuck to AT&T and Apple and both their lacking support. That's called a difference of options ...

Let me make one thing clear: if Apple opened up iOS, introduced proper multi tasking, didn't force everything to go through their appstore, didn't force people to use iTunes, didn't censor apps, etc. THEN it would be a good platform. The software itself is pretty decent although limited and it runs apps and games fine so in that sense, yes, it's good.

But Apple wants to control far too much - and I just can't believe how Apple users can convince themselves the lack of Flash is not a problem - every forum I see a topic about it, it has the same people going "meh who needs Flash, the future lies in *insert new technology almost no-one uses yet*". Seriously, the huge huge majority of sites that show any animation or clips uses Flash - this has never been a small issue so why are people so quick to dismiss it? To clear their conscience? Because they prefer to pretend the nasty splinter isn't in their thumb?

Come on ... everyone knows that Apple is popular because it's the "cool brand to buy". If you claim ANYTHING else, you're only kidding yourself. The huge bulk of people buy Apple without knowing what it really does except that its "cool". Remember that cartoon Youtube vid of the iPhone ("I don't care, I want an iPhone") - that is the exact attitude I've seen from every iPhone user I've met. I don't see any behaviour like that from any other phone (not even the Blackberry users) or computer user. And with Apple having advertised their hardware to be "for special people" for years, it sure didn't help. Think different my ass.

You mean "mentally handicapped people", isn't it? It's the only thing I can think of when mumbling about the Apple fanboys :-D

I made a topic on the Android forums a few days ago about my worries about fragmentation of the app market because of the upgrades so I won't argue about that - it's very true and the software is developing too fast compared to PCs where you can easily last 3-4 years using the same software. Google need to slow down and retain backward compatibility.

The reliability is very good, however - there's been tons of tests that have shown the Android OS to be just as stable as the iOS.

First of all, people need to investigate before buying. You can't blame the OS or Google because some manufacturers decide to offer a phone for sale that has a crippled OS. That's part of the freedom of Android after all ...

Second of all, you can easily HAVE Gingerbread on your phone if you really want it - that's why there's roms. I did it myself - flashed a new ROM so I'd have Bluetooth support on my HTC Desire. I just had to hook up my phone to my PC, run a program that rooted it, place a zip file on my phone, reboot the phone and hold volume down & power, then choose to update the phone from the menu and point to the zip and voila. Takes less than an hour and you have a phone that can have any ROM you want. And unlike jail breaking, it won't get you in trouble (although I believe a judge recently kicked Apple out of court over an iPhone jailbreak case?). Of course, this is not an option for the regular technophobic user - but those who really want the latest software should have the basic knowledge to do this.

Again, don't blame the platform because people are idiots. You can drag the same argument to every other technology area: TVs, cameras, mp3 players, etc. ALL markets are saturated - it just takes a little effort to sort through the crap. And hell, people have no excuse - they only have themselves to blame if they buy junk. The internet has thousands of reviews, benchmarks, tests, etc. for you to read and if you can't even Google, you shouldn't even HAVE a smartphone.

And yes, new phones are released all the time - so what? The same, again, goes with everything else - even Macs. That's how the market works - the real issue, is app support and the huge majority of apps will be designed to work for the biggest chunk of the market so they don't lose sales so that will work out anyway - the downside, is that special features on your phone may go unused by many apps (for example, Bluetooth support means I can attach a wiimote or keyboard yet almost no game lets me assign keys to them instead of crappy on-screen buttons - never liked non-tactile buttons).

The US isn't the whole world. In the rest of the World you still pay a hefty premium even if it's slightly lower. You only pay 50% more here instead of 100% as it was a few years back.

*laughs his ass off*. Honestly, I hadn't read this one before I wrote the topic above - you're just proof I'm right if you say this. (I mean the line where all iPhone/ipad users claim Flash is outdated and will get replaced anyway).

Seriously, it may drain the battery but so what? You think playing 3D games on your phone won't do that either? Maybe we should remove 3D capabilities then? That's just as ignorant a thing to say. Besides, as an Android user, you should know Flash is set to "ask" by default so you have to click on a Flash image/app to load it meaning it's there when you need it, but it won't load unless you tell it to.

The fact remains, these devices are being sold NOW, the first gen iPhone is already way outdated and didn't have Flash support either so the whole "Flash will die in X years" is bullshit. It's still being used right now and it's still the main software needed for many many sites to load correctly. Until Flash is really overtaken by other technologies, there's no excuse for it when only Apple benefit from the lack of Flash.

Oh come on, BSD has plenty of its own pains in the ass. Apple worked like hell to make OSX as stable as it was and they still had issues initially that would have made the "so what?" bastards at MS's OS division blush with shame.

The holy war between BSD and Linux has got to stop. They're both good at different things (and sometimes the same thing) and they both run tons of tech people use every day.
You were an early adopter and should have known what would happen, I hate to pick on you, but you're technically competent and I wonder why you would have expected any different?

Most people on Android now are getting passable support, people willing to root are getting amazing support from the community.

Flamewar aside, I too would recommend you look into a netbook. I myself own one, and I think it's great. You can get 6-12 hours battery use depending on the model, and they have a proper keyboard, which, in my opinion, is the way to go if you need to type properly.

You have the choice of using Windows or Linux, they're pretty cheap, and easy to carry around.

Go take a look at one, nothing to lose:)

No kidding. We had a brand new Mac G5 back in 2002 shortly after Mac OS X was released - it was a nightmare. The whole font system was a disaster and many companies returned to Mac OS 9 because of these bugs - Mac OS Classic was the "answer" but defeated the whole point of having Mac OS X. I do not have good memories from getting Quark Xpress to properly work with Mac OS Classic - it wouldn't even work at ALL in Mac OS X until they patched it. It simply refused to integrate fonts into its PS files meaning you'd have a courrier-style font all over.

Of course, if you're not a graphic designer, that's not a big deal but for a computer which, back then, was primarily bought for graphic design, it was a ridiculous problem for Apple to not have fixed. We had to buy the 10.3 update for it to finally be properly fixed (Apple never fixed it in the updates of 10.1 or 10.2 for whatever reason) - but by then, the OS had become too slow on the current machine (that a year and a half before had cost $6000). And right after that, the Intel CPUs were released which caused a whole world of pain when it came to compatibility ... ouch.

It's not. Flash is used so often that seeing any kind of widespread change to Silverlight or HTML5 will still take many, many years. Especially HTML5 is irrelevant at this stage as it is barely in use at all. At some point flash will probably lose out, but by that time you've already swapped you iWhatever. Several times. Each time couging up the same reasons to justify the purchase.

In summary; if you want an iWhatever, go ahead and buy one, but don't cite obvious myths like that as a big reason why it's better than the competition.

Really the only difference between them at their core is the license they're released under (yes BSD and System V are that similar when you get right down to it). Everything else is how someone decides to implement them. Linux can be extremely stable and BSD can be a cluster of crashes and tangled mess.

This, your iPad will be dead or replaced by the time we see Flash disappear to any significant extent. I don't like Flash and I wouldn't cry if it disappeared tomorrow, but it's insidious and hard to get rid of.

Okay, good point.

OS X is based on NeXTSTEP, which Mac bought out, and its hybrid Mach/BSD kernel. You can't blame Job's abomination that drags on the Office 2010 Ribbon, with processing elements far in excess of what is required, on the BSD community.

OS X is a sad, sad excuse for an OS that is devoid of modern security features, the more efficient race-to-execute paradigm, or a lot of other important features of a modern OS. OS X does not respect any important part of the BSD philosophy, when I've checked it out. Or what made NeXTSTEP successful. And the supreme irony is the 1980s announcement commercial applies most to them now.

Not that BSD has anything to advertize it over Linux in those kind of applications given when benchmarked in most tasks it falls behind, and it's not exactly known for not having to worry about whether a driver is available or not. You want to compare BSD to Linux you're comparing a properly configured Slackware install to a properly configured BSD of your flavor of choice, and suddenly all the propoganda falls utterly flat as *drumroll* Slackware, aka the oldest still maintained distro, has the refined userland, the true Unix feel, and the full flexibility of Linux. Comparing distros using precompiled binaries for anything beyond the core system to BSD must be done on a distro or class of distro basis, because otherwise everything you say is instantly nonsense.

It's been almost 17 years since 1994 when Linux kernel 1.0 came out with the GNU community behind it, and BSD 4.4 showed up having cleared the AT&T lawsuit. The freedom approach that allows the system to decide the most efficient path has shown itself superior to the pretentiousness of a few.

OLPC uses a GNU/Linux:Fedora derivative for its primary OS. Supercomputers tend to favor Linux. Servers tend to favor Linux. When the World Governments began deciding they were going to give Microsoft the finger, they chose Linux. BSD has a solid share in Routers and Internet nodes, but that's as much because the related companies chose BSD for that long ago as anything else. All despite the Berkley School Distribution starting out as a well respected Unix mod turned standalone product, and Linux as... well a hobby.

The fact you're on the desperate "fight" stage means we both know how this ends.

Nor is Android a properly setup Linux OS by any standard definition. Pointing at it in regards to GNU/Linux is only slightly better then Microsoft's antics back when they paid off a company to misconfigure Linux so the Microsoft product would come out ahead. What Google does when straying lays at the doorstep of Google, and what OEMs do when straying from Google lays at their doorstep.With the AMD C-series parts netbooks we're finally starting to get decent processing power and battery life. If you're waiting until Christmas time anyway the 28nm High-k metal gate SOI process version should be out, which should have around twice the power.

We should at that time also be seeing new ARM processors made with the same process through Global Foundries around that time, and the tablet market in general should be maturing. So keep your eyes open and make sure of the various options you actually do end up with what you want. Do note that there are Netbook Tablets that cost less then a iPad and have the well developed Windows note taking utilities along those lines. These include Asus Eee models and Lenovo IdeaPad models. These tend to weigh around 3 pounds so are still heavier then the iPad's 1.5lb, but you do get extra flexibility for that and a larger screen.

Note that 3G and similar modems do come in USB form, if that's important to you.

You went into greater detail and explained in much better clarity than I did what I was trying to say earlier. Thank you. :)

uh-uh ... I never actually met an a Mac or an iPhone user who was like that except for the people who are frankly equivalent to you for Apple and those Apple people bug shit out of me too. Really I'm not the one who seems to be touchy ... I'm and was highly amused! Because you're the same as them and you can't see it!

I think you're all the same: you fans of android are exactly the same as the fans of Apple and the more the two side protest their difference the more they become the same. If I had made a similar list for Android, you would have been all over it. I mean look at your response to fragmentation - yes, but its not really that bad. My response to flash ... yes but its not really that bad. People who call Apple people mindless drones or whatever almost always are themselves fans of simply of some other system. What a shock! The crippled list you make for any system depends on what you find important. Can't you see that? You seem otherwise intelligent from the posts you've made can't you see past this? I'm not arguing that iOS for you is the best system, clearly it isn't, but you've seriously bought into your own propaganda in a big way and that always amuses me regardless of if its about politics or technology wars or whatever. Seriously "think different" - in this case that doesn't mean buy a Mac, that means don't believe your own tribe's propaganda. I've never bought into Apple's and you shouldn't buy into yours!

Do I like the lack of flash? No. Do I like all of Apple's corporate policies? No. Do I still like the iPhone over the Android phones? Yes. Because the other two aren't as important to me as they are to you and some of Android's problems were which you yourself mentioned. Okay so .. I chose an iPhone. And btw ... if Apple in Belgium has bad customer support then I am truly sorry, but in the States Apple has the best customer ratings over most if not all tech companies - you can look it up and personally I have had nothing but good experiences. Again, I don't live in Belgium so I can't comment on what you experienced, but here we have a pretty exceptional level of support. It also means the device maker and OS maker can't point fingers at each other when things go wrong. Apple is also btw on two networks, not one anymore. So again, either you haven't been paying attention or you just like repeating the same arguments from the past.

I'm sorry but most Apple users are aware of the trade-offs, but that's what they are trade-offs.The people who believe that the ones who aren't like them must ignorant sheep are the ones more often than not who are ignorant sheep, because the "everyone knows" defense is the classic line for not thinking for yourself. I could say "Everyone knows Macs don't get viruses" and that would not be a great argument for Apple having the best security in its OS. This is you and the Apple fanboys exactly like you. They think you Androidians are all sheep jumping on the Google bandwagon too and would say almost exactly things you say but swap Android and iOS. Haven't you argued with enough Apple fanboys to have noticed the eerie similarity with which you argue against each other? - oh some of the details might be different, but the overall themes are the same.

Android does some things better. iOS does some things better.


P.S. If it was simply the Apple Mac vs. PC commercials that caused this ire in you, then sure I can understand not liking those if you were a fan of something else, but really ... come on these arguments are silly and you know it. If theCheese likes his experience on the iPad what's that to you or anyone else? It's a consumer product choice. I don't have an iPad or any tablet or netbook and have not seen a reason for me to get one, but someone else has and liked their experience on the it. Good for them! He's clearly not a fanboy, he just liked it. He didn't bash Android, he just likes the iPad. We don't all have to get the same OS to be one with the world. In fact we don't all have to use the same products for ourselves - I have both Apple and non-Apple products - some things I like Apple for, some things I don't. It really is just that simple.

PSS For those who didn't like the Mac commercials or even if you just have a sense of humor, the true_nuff mockummercials are great! Unfortunately I can only find the low quality ones on . (They also make fun of BSD, Linux, and Windows for those who are sensitive to that kind of thing) Found the higher quality [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QTeGcyVelY&feature=relmfu]ones.

Ummm ... Youtube has mostly transitioned over H.264 as well as still using flash, I have no problem watching youtube. In three years, I count three times I've missed flash. I'm not kidding or lying or justifying. Literally three times. I don't even have angry birds on my iPhone, which is a 3G (not a 3GS) and I plan on keeping it until it breaks. Now clearly I'm not you or Red who visit flash sites more often, I don't. I have a few select sites, like this one, that I visit quite often and not much else. Almost all of what I need or want is not flash based.

But more generally when did I say people were lying about faults Apple has and has had? I can't recall saying that nor did I imply it. Quite the opposite, I don't think you or anyone else are at all and I more than aware of them myself. I don't know why you are suddenly being defensive. In fact in my statements I said the argument that "Everyone knows that Macs don't get viruses" was NOT a good argument that OS X had better security. I already knew about the lack of security features is OS X (I do read tech forums). And btw, NeXT was Job's company - his company developed NextStep. If you feel OS X was a step back from NextStep that's fine, but Jobs did it to himself, not someone else's work.

I actually did mention the playbook in my thread - the specs look good albeit in a 7" design. My mother uses a Storm 2 and loves it. She also has an iPad. Again, I'm not a fan of tablets or netbooks, but it seems Apple's products are highly competitive in this space. The notion ink Adam as had its own criticisms btw - mostly centering around shoddy construction. I wasn't blaming Google for the OEM's bad business practices but Android runs through the OEMs which is problem of the business model - hence also my statement that software and hardware can't point fingers at each other at Apple since they are the same company - at every point if there is a fault, the fault is theirs.

As for Foxconn, yes Apple's use of them is wrong, so is every other OEM's like HP, Dell, Acer, Asus, etc ... and those who use the equivalents of Foxconn are really no better. Stealing is also when you don't pay for something. Apple paid Xerox for the visits - gave them $1 million in Apple stock before any lawsuits took place almost what 8 years later. If we're to look at who's suing who - everyone is suing everyone in the tech world, and most of the time losing deservedly including Apple. Apple mostly lost against Microsoft, Xerox's was thrown out of court, and most today are settled behind closed doors. I didn't say Apple was better than anyone else and I admit they've done a lot of patent trolling recently.

But as for false equivalency, I've not seen a lot to really put many tech companies ahead morally. If you have, I'll be interested to hear what you have to say.

As for my opinion, I don't think theCheese was looking for advice, he was merely expressing how much he enjoyed his experience on the iPad and was excited for the iPad2. Personally I'm not sure why he posted his excitement, but he did. Clearly from his posts he is not an apple fanboy, what is it to anyone else that he liked it? He even uses Android on his phone and liked the Motorola Xoom. There's also a difference between giving someone an opinion of what you think is better and simply telling them that everyone in the "iCulture" is a mindless sheep or that Android is a broken, fragmented mess. You essentially said this yourself and I was trying to make the same point - clearly not well in your mind.

I also didn't bash Android, unless you count saying that "Android is a good platform" is bashing? Just for good measure I'll repeat it here: Android is a good platform. To me, I prefer my iPhone, but I'm not everyone and don't think everyone should use iPhones. I think people should use what they like, shouldn't be castigated for it if it's a legit product, and that iOS, Android, etc... are good platforms. I can't make my opinion on the subject more clear than that. To be honest I'm a little baffled as to the tenor and content of your response to what I wrote. It seems fairly innocuous to me. I hope we can clear this up.

Perhaps you mistook what I said in earlier posts to mean that anyone who criticizes Apple or prefers another system is merely a fanboy? That wasn't what I was implying and if that's what you think I wrote then I apologize for my lack of specificity. There are criticisms that are well founded and well written from people who are well versed in why these criticisms are true and write about them cogently with as little as bias as is humanely possible and come to the conclusion that IOS is not as good as Android or OS X is not as good as Linux or Windows or ... etc. And I respect those arguments ... a lot. In fact I thoroughly enjoy those kinds of debates on all subjects: politics, technology, etc...

There is a way of arguing correctly and a way that a fanboy argues in. I certainly was not attacking you or your posts. I wasn't even really attacking Red, merely pushing to see if he could tell that arguments to and from fanboys look a lot alike regardless of what side of the fence they're on and that his posts were eerily similar to those.

I didn't say who had started mudslinging or accuse whatever company of being bad. In fact the only bashing of one corporation by another that I brought up was Apple's ads bashing Windows. Further those mock commercials were meant to make fun of the stereotypes - the Mac stereotypes, the PC stereotypes, and yes the Linux stereotypes. It's called satire. It was making fun of the stereotypes, not the people who use them or the actual products, and taken as that, they're funny. I like Linux (okay at the moment I don't have a Linux distro on my home computer, but I've used it extensively and liked it), I even like Windows (begrudgingly :P), and I like my OS X. I also laughed when the commercials were making fun of Mac, Windows, and Linux, because once again I recognized they were making fun of the stereotypes not the people or the actual products. I didn't take it personally when the Mac was the butt of the jokes because they weren't really making fun of the Mac or Mac users. If you watch Jon Stewart one might mistakenly come to the conclusion he has been making fun of teachers recently, but he's doing it such an over-the-top manner you know that far from making fun of teachers, he's making fun of the negative stereotypes about teachers and by association the people who promulgate those negative stereotypes. I do not want to bring politics into an already heated thread, but I was trying to find a current, popular example of satire. To go more classical, Swift wasn't serious when he proposed eating babies as a way to solve poverty. I'm not saying these commercials were in the same intellectual playing field as Swift (they're not), but I thought they were amusing in the vein of satire. These commercials were making fun of the negative stereotypes. My friends and I used to argue Mac vs PC against each other with the most ridiculous statements possible and we thought it was fun. We didn't take it seriously, because who could? If you'd like to link to the Novell ads, I don't know those, I'd be happy to take a look.

Apologies for the wall-o-text.