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Darling_Jimmy: Yes, either EA or Apple could pull the app from sale but Apple would not approve an update to kill previously purchased content entirely.
If EA simply ask Apple to remove completely an app from the app store I am not convinced that Apple wouldn't simply, well, comply, after all EA is the right owners of the application.
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Gersen: If EA simply ask Apple to remove completely an app from the app store I am not convinced that Apple wouldn't simply, well, comply, after all EA is the right owners of the application.
Of course they can remove it from sale. I just said that:


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Darling_Jimmy: Yes, either EA or Apple could pull the app from sale
Waitaminnit, if this is all caused by licensing, why is it only affecting the iOS version of the game? Shouldn't the console versions also have similar licensing and if so, couldn't this also eventually affect them?
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Darling_Jimmy: Of course they can remove it from sale. I just said that:
I was not talking about simply remove from sales but totally remove from the app store. (i.e. no more possible to validate the license and no more possible to download/install the game)
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Darling_Jimmy: Yes, either EA or Apple could pull the app from sale but Apple would not approve an update to kill previously purchased content entirely.
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Gersen: If EA simply ask Apple to remove completely an app from the app store I am not convinced that Apple wouldn't simply, well, comply, after all EA is the right owners of the application.
Removing an app from the store is different from stopping the app from working. This is actually going to prevent anyone from playing this version of the app ever again, no refunds allowed. Plus it's still available for purchase in the store.

If this is a licensing issue, it's the first time I've seen license issues for the publisher affect the end-users' ability to operate software that was purchased legitimately.
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Darling_Jimmy: Gog pulled the games from distribution. They were not required to destroy all purchased copies on customers' personal hard drives. There is simply no precedent for what you are suggesting. And even if EA signed some sort of retroactive content removal contract, Apple did not and would not be bound to any such agreement.
You do not own a game, but a license. If that license is illegal in some way and can be removed, it will be. If a judge sees it that way and he issues the order to Apple, they will comply. This doesn't smell like some license running out, but of a more pressing legal problem. If some of the original license agreements for some reasons are being declared void, they can force Apple to adhere.

I obviously don't know the whole case, but it is possible. And Apple isn't above the law (yet).

And GOG pulled games from shelves, which is nearly as bad and covers the same problem. Revoking an already existing license on a 3d party.
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bevinator: For me, this is the scariest part of the article:

"EA Mobile's Support site has been taken offline. A basic message states: "This site has been disabled for the time being," with no further explanation."

So you can't even contact them about it. Or about ANYTHING ELSE mobile-related for the entire duration of the fiasco. How wonderful.
EA's mobile division hasn't exactly been up to par lately. Given that, as far as I know, every Android copy of Plants vs. Zombies on a Samsung Galaxy S2 (you know, Samsung's friggin' flagship phone) stopped working when the OS was updated to version 4, and they still haven't done anything about it, I'd say that this whole thing looks very bad for EA's mobile customers overall.
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bevinator: Removing an app from the store is different from stopping the app from working. This is actually going to prevent anyone from playing this version of the app ever again, no refunds allowed.
You have a right for refunds. EA can't wiggle itself out of those. When they offered the game for sale, they had to make sure that it runs for at least a "normal time" after purchase. Maybe 2 - 3 years, I don't know what the excact numbers would be.

Nobody will probably go through the effort, but that is a different problem.
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SimonG: And GOG pulled games from shelves, which is nearly as bad and covers the same problem. Revoking an already existing license on a 3d party.
Ah, no. GOG has stopped selling certain games. The people who had already bought those games still have them, even on their shelf, and can still download them.

There's a HUGE difference between that and what EA are doing. It smacks more of the Gears of War PC DRM fiasco, except that this seems to be by design, rather than by stupidity.
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SimonG: And GOG pulled games from shelves, which is nearly as bad and covers the same problem. Revoking an already existing license on a 3d party.
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Wishbone: Ah, no. GOG has stopped selling certain games. The people who had already bought those games still have them, even on their shelf, and can still download them.
http://www.gog.com/en/forum/toca_race_driver_3/the_end_is_nigh
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SimonG: If some of the original license agreements for some reasons are being declared void, they can force Apple to adhere.
When it was ruled Tengen didn't own rights to Tetris, copyright police were not dispatched to destroy all purchased copies. That "you only own a license to the game" smokescreen isn't above the law (yet.)

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SimonG: And GOG pulled games from shelves, which is nearly as bad and covers the same problem. Revoking an already existing license on a 3d party.
No, that is not the same at all. You still own the game. Gog just can't distribute it anymore.
Well done, you. Except that you didn't bother to check if it ever actually happened, did you?
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SimonG: GOG had to pull some games from the shelves of people that already owned them, I think that this is a real possibility.
As far as I know, GOG hasn't - so far - pulled any game off customers' shelves. Changed game packages to not include various extras, yes, but not pulled a game itself (we were warned it might be done, but it hasn't happened yet).
Post edited May 02, 2012 by Miaghstir
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Darling_Jimmy: When it was ruled Tengen didn't own rights to Tetris, copyright police were not dispatched to destroy all purchased copies. That "you only own a license to the game" smokescreen isn't above the law (yet.)
That's the thing though, you own those discs and boxes, just not the content on them. It's a legal mudpile that companies hate, which is why they looooove digital.
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Darling_Jimmy: snip
There are core differences. With apps it is possible. You can't "hunt down games". That is why it only affects apps and not the XBox games. It is a matter of practicality. That is one of the possible dangers of DRM, they can shut down your games. With a retail game you still have property of the medium, so they couldn't just confiscate that. Eg, a german court could order Steam to shut down my copy of Dead Rising 2 (theoratically, and the issue would be very different), yet as long as it's possible, it will be an option.

Additionally, I would guess that apps run under a different license than games. An app is probably a "service" and not a finished package like most games are sold. I honestly haven't looked it up, but from what I've seen so far on my phone that seems to be the case.
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Wishbone: Well done, you. Except that you didn't bother to check if it ever actually happened, did you?
Well, the game was pulled before I joined. And I stumbled upon threads like this

http://www.gog.com/en/forum/toca_race_driver_3/we_want_to_download_toca_forever

which made me think that game wasn't available anymore.

Edit: And GOG pulled various extra for exactly the same reason. Probably a dozen soundtracks at least ...
Post edited May 02, 2012 by SimonG