It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
Wishbone: Because it's a fantastic tool?
avatar
hedwards: Not really, it used to be a fantastic tool, but people just use it out of inertia at this point. There's a few people out there that use the macro capabilities, but for what most people do with it, it's just not a very good program.
Apart from the fact that the ribbon interface ruined the GUI the same as for the other Office programs (but then that was long ago), how exactly has Excel gotten worse compared to before?
avatar
hedwards: [...] the programmers don't even bother to make sure that things like linear regressions provide the correct results.
avatar
spindown: Can you provide an example of Excel doing an incorrect linear regression?
Presumably it's been fixed by now. And at any rate, I haven't got a copy of Excel so I don't know if it's been fixed.
avatar
hedwards: Not really, it used to be a fantastic tool, but people just use it out of inertia at this point. There's a few people out there that use the macro capabilities, but for what most people do with it, it's just not a very good program.
avatar
Wishbone: Apart from the fact that the ribbon interface ruined the GUI the same as for the other Office programs (but then that was long ago), how exactly has Excel gotten worse compared to before?
If you don't think that the Ribbon interface is a huge problem, then I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you. The Ribbon interface is a huge problem in and of itself. And to make things worse, each time MS releases a new version they move things around, the current Excel is definitely not the same as the first version they included the Ribbon interface with.
Post edited November 27, 2014 by hedwards
avatar
AnonAnom: I assume it means weighted average price, weighted by the different quantities.
So "=sumproduct(A1:A5,B1:B5)/sum(A1:A5)"?
Cool, I've never used that function XD

avatar
hedwards: I'm surprised that anybody still uses Excel. It's buggy, the interface is the worst one on the market and the programmers don't even bother to make sure that things like linear regressions provide the correct results.
What do you use instead?
I tried OpenOffice ages ago, but it had some problems with formula differences and compatibility with Excel.
I've never tried LibreOffice, though.

P.S: I hate that huge messy ribbon too!
Also, why the hell did MS choose to localize the formulas?? -_-'
Finally, MS should really update the basic ancient ones with new versions, they are quite uncomfortable to use.
Post edited November 27, 2014 by phaolo
Who needs Excel when you can use Mathematica for unusual things.
avatar
The-Business: Who needs Excel when you can use Mathematica for unusual things.
Holy shit! I neeeeed this!
And you thought CD-Projekt was kidding when they were talking about boob physics for Witcher 3...
avatar
hedwards: If you don't think that the Ribbon interface is a huge problem, then I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you. The Ribbon interface is a huge problem in and of itself. And to make things worse, each time MS releases a new version they move things around, the current Excel is definitely not the same as the first version they included the Ribbon interface with.
While the ribbon can certainly be a pain, the functionality is still there even if you have to re-learn how to access it. And for the basic home user the simple arithmetic they're likely using it for still remains easy enough to access even through the interface changes (although for simple stuff like that the OpenOffice and LibreOffice alternatives are for the most part perfectly good substitutes). In an enterprise environment, though, Excel still, well, excels due to the macros that can be written for it along with being able to integrate it with external databases. For instance, at my job we have Excel plugged into a pretty massive Oracle database so that users can quickly pull in data using query sheets that our IT group sets up, but which have a front-end that can be configured by the user pretty easily. Quite useful for pulling and organizing literally thousands of data points in a matter of minutes. So far I haven't seen other programs that could do the same thing. So what it ultimately comes down to is that while there are certainly things one can complain about with Excel (mostly interface issues), there's not an alternative available that can take it's place, at least in the enterprise environment or for people that actually make use of Excel's full capabilities.
avatar
Wishbone: Apart from the fact that the ribbon interface ruined the GUI the same as for the other Office programs (but then that was long ago), how exactly has Excel gotten worse compared to before?
avatar
hedwards: If you don't think that the Ribbon interface is a huge problem, then I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you. The Ribbon interface is a huge problem in and of itself. And to make things worse, each time MS releases a new version they move things around, the current Excel is definitely not the same as the first version they included the Ribbon interface with.
If you don't even read the post you're replying to, then I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you. When I said "ruined the GUI", did you think I meant "improved the GUI"?

So, your only problem with Excel is the ribbon interface, I take it? Since I specifically asked for anything besides that (since that much is obvious) and you didn't mention anything else.
avatar
hedwards: If you don't think that the Ribbon interface is a huge problem, then I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you. The Ribbon interface is a huge problem in and of itself. And to make things worse, each time MS releases a new version they move things around, the current Excel is definitely not the same as the first version they included the Ribbon interface with.
avatar
Wishbone: If you don't even read the post you're replying to, then I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you. When I said "ruined the GUI", did you think I meant "improved the GUI"?

So, your only problem with Excel is the ribbon interface, I take it? Since I specifically asked for anything besides that (since that much is obvious) and you didn't mention anything else.
No need to make an ass of yourself. I missed one word in your post.

Still the point is that Ribbon is hardly the only problem, they've managed to make the Ribbon worse over time. It wasn't as unusable when they first released the version with Ribbon, but they've slowly taken things that were logically placed and moved them to God only knows where as the survey continually focuses on people that can't figure out how to stop sending data to MS about how they're using the program.
avatar
hedwards: If you don't think that the Ribbon interface is a huge problem, then I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you. The Ribbon interface is a huge problem in and of itself. And to make things worse, each time MS releases a new version they move things around, the current Excel is definitely not the same as the first version they included the Ribbon interface with.
avatar
DarrkPhoenix: While the ribbon can certainly be a pain, the functionality is still there even if you have to re-learn how to access it. And for the basic home user the simple arithmetic they're likely using it for still remains easy enough to access even through the interface changes (although for simple stuff like that the OpenOffice and LibreOffice alternatives are for the most part perfectly good substitutes). In an enterprise environment, though, Excel still, well, excels due to the macros that can be written for it along with being able to integrate it with external databases. For instance, at my job we have Excel plugged into a pretty massive Oracle database so that users can quickly pull in data using query sheets that our IT group sets up, but which have a front-end that can be configured by the user pretty easily. Quite useful for pulling and organizing literally thousands of data points in a matter of minutes. So far I haven't seen other programs that could do the same thing. So what it ultimately comes down to is that while there are certainly things one can complain about with Excel (mostly interface issues), there's not an alternative available that can take it's place, at least in the enterprise environment or for people that actually make use of Excel's full capabilities.
That's sort of the point, I've been using computers for nearly 30 years now and the old UI worked. You're not supposed to be going into menus constantly, that's what the shortcut keys are for. With the old UI you knew roughly where to look if you didn't know the shortcut key. I could have learned how to use the newer versions of Excel, but I'm not going to pay MS money for a new copy and then go through the hassle of learning how to use it because MS UX engineers are incompetent.

With Ribbon, they hide most of the functionality in unpredictable and ill-logical places.

Anyways, MS seems to have serious issues with usability of their products. There's no consistent paradigm to go wtih. It's grossly inefficient to have to take classes to learn how to use a program because the developers decided that they wanted to abandon the typical convention of where to place things. Software like Photoshop, Blender, Autocad tend to need classes, not because the UI is that complicated, but because there's a ton of functionality there.

As far as macros go, that's basically the only legitimate reason for anybody to still use Excel.
Post edited November 28, 2014 by hedwards
avatar
hedwards: With Ribbon, they hide most of the functionality in unpredictable and ill-logical places.
I don't know what 'Ribbon' means but i certainly do know all about Microsoft pointlessly moving things around and hiding things in unpredictable and illogical locations in their newer versions.... of anything, really, but especially Office!

That is why we are still using Office 2010 in our company, someone tried a copy of 2011 when it came out and we soon realized it was packed full of these nonsensical changes that you have to spend hours re learning and what is the benefit in the end? NOTHING.

But i find no one hides functionality in unpredictable and illogical locations more absurdly than mobile phones! agree? or is it just me? Right now, if someone offered me a million dollars to take a picture with my mobile phone, i could not do it, because the menu system is just such a jumble of nonsensical illogical incoherent insane rambling drunk drugged up aluminum hat wearing nonsense beyond anything you could possibly imagine.
avatar
mystikmind2000: But i find no one hides functionality in unpredictable and illogical locations more absurdly than mobile phones! agree? or is it just me? Right now, if someone offered me a million dollars to take a picture with my mobile phone, i could not do it, because the menu system is just such a jumble of nonsensical illogical incoherent insane rambling drunk drugged up aluminum hat wearing nonsense beyond anything you could possibly imagine.
I... think it's just you. At least, in order to use the camera in my phone, I turn on the screen, touch the "Camera" icon, which looks like a camera with the text "Camera" underneath, and hey presto, it opens the camera application.

Of course I don't know which phone you have. For reference, mine is a Samsung Galaxy S2/4 (I have both), and I get the impression that the interface is pretty standard for an Android phone.
While the interface definitely got worse (ribbon), I wouldn't say that overall Excel is terrible. My only problem is with people who use Excel files in situations where they should be using a database.
avatar
hedwards: Not really, it used to be a fantastic tool, but people just use it out of inertia at this point. There's a few people out there that use the macro capabilities, but for what most people do with it, it's just not a very good program.
avatar
hedwards: Ribbon
avatar
hedwards: Ribbon
If it is a fantastic tool, it is a fantastic tool. It is not a wavefunction which collapses into being a crappy state when most people use it, being a great piece of software when left unobserved.

So despite being "buggy as hell" is the tool I must use for Analytical and Physical Chemistry, because it is reliable, efficient and easy to use in a "get to the point" sense. I suppose that, despite trying to replace it with OpenOffice and Libreoffice (and even Lotus Shympony) but never being able to, because Excel won in the end both in capacities and speed doing the tasks, it is still a shitty tool. Because yes, they changed the menu with a menu which has underneath quick access to regular use functions (and even made it customizable in latter versions), so is da sizz. Fuck 4 click statistycal analysis, I would rather do it in twice the time with a classic menu.

Jeez, I am the first who wants to kiss Excel goodbye, but that logic and arguments....flawless.

Not.
avatar
mystikmind2000: But i find no one hides functionality in unpredictable and illogical locations more absurdly than mobile phones! agree? or is it just me? Right now, if someone offered me a million dollars to take a picture with my mobile phone, i could not do it, because the menu system is just such a jumble of nonsensical illogical incoherent insane rambling drunk drugged up aluminum hat wearing nonsense beyond anything you could possibly imagine.
avatar
Wishbone: I... think it's just you. At least, in order to use the camera in my phone, I turn on the screen, touch the "Camera" icon, which looks like a camera with the text "Camera" underneath, and hey presto, it opens the camera application.

Of course I don't know which phone you have. For reference, mine is a Samsung Galaxy S2/4 (I have both), and I get the impression that the interface is pretty standard for an Android phone.
Oh geez, imagine that, they put an icon for the camera on the main screen?! I thought camera's were way far too obscure type of thing that hardly anyone would ever want to use...... (sarcasm based on idiot phone manufacturer logic)

My phone is a Nokia.... which model i don't know, it is not written.

Funny thing, my wife always complain i don't know how to use mobiles and yet i can put together a gaming computer. Then one time she tried taking a picture with my phone and couldn't do it! She persisted with determination and after about an hour she finally found it..... hidden down the most illogical rabbit hole of a menue system you could imagine, like i said, camera's are way to obscure an item to put high up in the menue (sarcasm based on idiot phone manufacturer logic).
Post edited November 28, 2014 by mystikmind2000
avatar
The-Business: Who needs Excel when you can use Mathematica for unusual things.
avatar
F4LL0UT: Holy shit! I neeeeed this!
Dat.. function! :D
Post edited November 28, 2014 by phaolo