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General discussion (archive)Inflation on GOG?(61 posts)(61 posts)
(61 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 30, 2012
high rated
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StingingVelvet: If it's for sale somewhere it's not abandonware dude. That's the whole premise of abandonware.
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misato: That's not entirely true. Just because something is abandonware doesn't mean that it isn't being sold by someone or some company. I know for a fact that some of the software here on GOG is abandonware.
No. None of the software on GOG is abandonware because it is available for purchase new. It ceases to be abandonware as soon as it's for sale legally.
Posted March 30, 2012
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misato: That's not entirely true. Just because something is abandonware doesn't mean that it isn't being sold by someone or some company. I know for a fact that some of the software here on GOG is abandonware.
Except that's wrong, dude.

http://www.copyright.gov/fedreg/2006/71fr68472.html
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/23/us-copyright-office-grants-abandonware-rights/
http://www.abandonwarering.com/?Page=FAQ
Posted March 30, 2012
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misato: That's not entirely true. Just because something is abandonware doesn't mean that it isn't being sold by someone or some company. I know for a fact that some of the software here on GOG is abandonware.
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SirPrimalform: No. None of the software on GOG is abandonware because it is available for purchase new. It ceases to be abandonware as soon as it's for sale legally.
Indeed.
Posted March 30, 2012
I think Adzeth put it the best:
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Adzeth: "games that GOG currently sells are abandonware"

Taking into consideration that abandonware's definition has that "not sold anywhere" part, if we were to expand that previous inclusion we'd get
"games that GOG currently sells are games that are not sold anywhere"
which basically has the same information as
"the games aren't being sold anywhere and they're being sold on GOG"
to which a logic teacher would say "go to jail without passing go" while making crude rapper poses (or more likely they'd point out that it's a contradiction and hence not true).
Posted March 30, 2012
As long as GOG continues to release CLassic games at the Six and Ten Dollars prices,I could care less what they charge for the new and indie games. IF they stop releasing classic games,then I will be upset.
Posted March 30, 2012
low rated
Okay, let me see if I can clear this up. You say if software is being sold somewhere, then that software is not abandonware. You may be right about that technically. My point was that many times I have seen software on a lot of websites being touted as abandonware and being given away, and other websites still selling that same software. For example, I have seen software here on Gog before, that is also on the Home of the Underdogs website ( they have a lot of old software that they claim is abandonware ). By your logic, the abandonware on Home of the Underdogs is now all of a sudden not abandonware the minute Gog decides to sell it. That doesn't make sense, and I am no copyright lawyer, but I am almost 100% certain that suddenly deciding to sell abandonware that has always been free, does not place that software in a different copyright / distribution category. It is still abandonware. That would be like saying that if band A plays a song written by band B, then that song now belongs to band B. I'm sorry. It doesn't work that way.


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misato: That's not entirely true. Just because something is abandonware doesn't mean that it isn't being sold by someone or some company. I know for a fact that some of the software here on GOG is abandonware.
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SirPrimalform: No. None of the software on GOG is abandonware because it is available for purchase new. It ceases to be abandonware as soon as it's for sale legally.
Posted March 30, 2012
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misato: Okay, let me see if I can clear this up. You say if software is being sold somewhere, then that software is not abandonware. You may be right about that technically. My point was that many times I have seen software on a lot of websites being touted as abandonware and being given away, and other websites still selling that same software. For example, I have seen software here on Gog before, that is also on the Home of the Underdogs website ( they have a lot of old software that they claim is abandonware ). By your logic, the abandonware on Home of the Underdogs is now all of a sudden not abandonware the minute Gog decides to sell it. That doesn't make sense, and I am no copyright lawyer, but I am almost 100% certain that suddenly deciding to sell abandonware that has always been free, does not place that software in a different copyright / distribution category. It is still abandonware. That would be like saying that if band A plays a song written by band B, then that song now belongs to band B. I'm sorry. It doesn't work that way.
Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but please tell us what is YOUR definition of 'abandonware'? Just because a lot of websites claim it 'abandonware' doesn't make it a 'true' abandonware.

That would be like saying if a lot of websites saying the Black Eyed Peas' song can be freely downloaded, it doesn't mean Black Eyed Peas really give permission to all those websites to download their song for free there.
Post edited March 30, 2012 by Catshade
Posted March 30, 2012
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misato: I am no copyright lawyer, but I am almost 100% certain that suddenly deciding to sell abandonware that has always been free, does not place that software in a different copyright / distribution category.
You're right, the copyright status of the game in question never changed. It was ALWAYS illegal to distribute it either way. Abandonware is not a legal copyright term.
Posted March 30, 2012
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misato: Okay, let me see if I can clear this up. You say if software is being sold somewhere, then that software is not abandonware. You may be right about that technically. My point was that many times I have seen software on a lot of websites being touted as abandonware and being given away, and other websites still selling that same software. For example, I have seen software here on Gog before, that is also on the Home of the Underdogs website ( they have a lot of old software that they claim is abandonware ). By your logic, the abandonware on Home of the Underdogs is now all of a sudden not abandonware the minute Gog decides to sell it. That doesn't make sense, and I am no copyright lawyer, but I am almost 100% certain that suddenly deciding to sell abandonware that has always been free, does not place that software in a different copyright / distribution category. It is still abandonware. That would be like saying that if band A plays a song written by band B, then that song now belongs to band B. I'm sorry. It doesn't work that way.
What you still fail to understand is that "abandonware" is not a legal concept. It is simply an informal way of saying that the copyright owners don't care about defending their rights to a certain piece of software anymore, oftentimes because it's old, unprofitable or out of print. In a nutshell, when people say that something is "abandonware", they mean that downloading it is still technically illegal, but no one cares.

The term abandonware has no rigorous meaning or any kind of legal validity, however. It is a fuzzy term that is open to interpretation. No piece of software can clearly and unambiguously be said to be "abandonware." Just because some website claims that a game is abandonware, that doesn't make it legal to download it.

If an old game is brought back and sold by a company like GOG or Steam then obviously financial interests are involved and the rights holders demonstrably do care about the copyright status of the game because they make money from selling it. So if a game is being sold, by definition it cannot be abandonware anymore. Clearly a game can revert from being "abandonware" to not being abandonware anymore as soon as the owner decides to make use of their rights to the game again.
Post edited March 31, 2012 by spindown
Posted March 31, 2012
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Snickersnack: Betrayal at Krondor and Red Baron have been freeware in the past but not for a great many years .
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timppu: Yeah but they are bundled with the later non-freeware games, which is kinda nifty.

Albeit, apparently Betrayal in Antara was a mere shadow of BAK, milking on its success. Or so I've heard, yet to play it. If the game mechanism is the same as in BAK, I'm probably quite happy because the much vaunted story in BAK didn't interest me, I don't even recall what it was about.
Oh, don't get me wrong. A legit copy of BaK is easily worth $5.99 on its own. :)

It's just weird to see such a famous game with a high profile freeware release* for sale again. Adzeth asked about freeware games sold on GOG and I thought it was worth mentioning for trivia's sake.

*no longer available
Posted March 31, 2012
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misato: Okay, let me see if I can clear this up. You say if software is being sold somewhere, then that software is not abandonware.
Exactly. sheepdragon posted a link to abandonwarering. Read what's written there:
The definition of abandonware
Abandonware is defined as any PC or console game that is:
- At least four years old
- Not being sold or supported by the company that produced it or by any other company. When a certain piece of Abandonware is later found to be sold or supported by a company, then it ceases to be Abandonware.
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misato: My point was that many times I have seen software on a lot of websites being touted as abandonware and being given away, and other websites still selling that same software.
Everything is given away for free on a lot of websites. We call that "piracy". It doesn't become legal just because someone says it's abandonware.

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misato: ( they have a lot of old software that they claim is abandonware )
That's the entire point. THEY claim it's abandonware. You are not allowed to download Mass Effect 3, Skyrim and Battlefield 3 for free, just because someone told you it's abandonware. Abandonware doesn't exist. Abandonware is just a word we users invented, to have a short name for "You're not allowed to distribute or download this software for free, but the right holders don't care if you do so because they don't sell it anymore." If a game appears on GOG, the right holders start to earn money with this game again. Right holders DO care if you download something for free, they're trying to earn money with.

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misato: By your logic, the abandonware on Home of the Underdogs is now all of a sudden not abandonware the minute Gog decides to sell it.
Yes.

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misato: That doesn't make sense
It does, because abandonware is short for "You're not allowed to distribute or download this software for free, but the right holders don't care if you do so because they don't sell it anymore."

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misato: I am no copyright lawyer, but I am almost 100% certain that suddenly deciding to sell abandonware that has always been free, does not place that software in a different copyright / distribution category. It is still abandonware.
It's not changing it's "copyright /distribution category". It never did. Abandonware never was abandonware. Abandonware never was free. Abandonware doesn't exist. You are not allowed to download anything for free (except freeware, of course). From the legal point, abandonware is piracy. Publishers just don't enforce their rights, because they don't lose any sale when you're downloading something they don't sell anymore.

Oh, one more thing: GOG doesn't "suddenly decide to sell abandonware that has always been free". You can't suddenly decide to sell something. You have to sign a contract with the right holders. You have to become a legal distributor. If you suddenly decide to sell abandonware (or any other software), you can be sure to receive mail from the right holders lawyers...

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misato: It doesn't work that way.
It does ;-)
Posted March 31, 2012
Why are you guys arguing with an idiot?
Posted March 31, 2012
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misato: Snip
You talk about Home of the Underdog, lets read their FAQ:

"But isn't abandonware illegal?

Unfortunately, yes. Despite the fact that publishers no longer derive revenues from these games since they have stopped selling them (and any revenues from retailers that still sell them were gained a long time ago, at the time of sales), it is illegal to distribute them so long as copyright holders have not released them into the public domain [...] As our Disclaimer printed on every page makes clear, we will gladly remove download links to any game that is either 1) still being sold by the publisher, or 2) at the request of the publishers themselves. Encouraging publishers to continue publishing great classics of yore has always been this site's foremost goals, and we will gladly link to the publisher's order or download site without hesitation should they make their products available again, whether commercially or as freeware."

http://homeoftheunderdogs.net/faq.php#a4
Post edited March 31, 2012 by amok
Posted March 31, 2012
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misato: Is it just me, or has anybody else noticed that GOG no longer sticks to the 5.99 and 9.99 price structure it has always had
Nah, it's just you.
Posted March 31, 2012
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TVs_Frank: Why are you guys arguing with an idiot?
It's interesting to see how many people care about something that nobody cares about.
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)Inflation on GOG?(61 posts)(61 posts)
(61 posts)