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jack_norton: Was asked by email by an user
That was me :)
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SirPrimalform: That's DRM, you just contradicted yourself.
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xyem: I think by "one time", he means you activate it and get a serial number and then that works forever, even offline.
Modern securom is one time but it still requires activation servers.

EDIT: If you have to connect to the internet to activate, even once, then it's definitely and undeniably DRM.
Post edited July 03, 2011 by SirPrimalform
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jack_norton: Well, if we want to be picky, explain the difference between:
- get link to download fullgame by email
- enter the email in the demo you already have installed and be done with it

all my user prefer the 2nd system since they can play instantly after trying the demo and buying it :)
I definitely prefer the first version. The second version is a horrible way to loose customers. It was shocking for me to learn that I have to activate Planet Stronghold. What is more, I see no reason for you to include DRM in your games. It's not like you suffer from piracy. I, for example haven't seen any of your games on warez sites.
I wouldn't mind the activation if I could download a crack for that game as I do that for all my purchases. The problem is, there are no cracks for your games, so I don't think I will be buying Avengers or Amazon Princess, unless I can download them full.
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SirPrimalform: That's DRM, you just contradicted yourself.
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xyem: I think by "one time", he means you activate it and get a serial number and then that works forever, even offline.
It's an online activation. You enter your email and it connects to authentication server.
Post edited July 03, 2011 by beliar
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SirPrimalform: EDIT: If you have to connect to the internet to activate, even once, then it's definitely and undeniably DRM.
Do you regard games on GOG where you have to "activate" your multiplayer by emailing GOG for a serial once as having DRM?

Also isn't that dangerously close to the "you had to connect to the internet to download the installer" as being DRM? :)
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beliar: It's an online activation. You enter your email and it connects to authentication server.
So you get into the situation where the authentication server being down stops you from playing? Not good. At least I can take it out of the bundle though.
Post edited July 03, 2011 by xyem
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SirPrimalform: EDIT: If you have to connect to the internet to activate, even once, then it's definitely and undeniably DRM.
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xyem: Do you regard games on GOG where you have to "activate" your multiplayer by emailing GOG for a serial once as having DRM?

Also isn't that dangerously close to the "you had to connect to the internet to download the installer" as being DRM? :)
Apart from that serial only being needed for multiplayer, once you have it it's yours. The serial is DRM free, you can just store it in a text file. Online activation is completely different! Even if it's one-time, that's one-time per install. Your installer is only useful if the activation servers are still running.

So, I see quite a big difference between emailing GOG for a multiplayer key and this, but maybe you don't. *shrug*
No it connects ONCE and then (unless you change PC) works forever. I have two activation server: if you cannot activate the game in 10 minutes I'll refund you the money. In thousands sales it never happened once (there was a very tiny minority of users that had firewall problems but that's it).
Honestly you might not believe it, but I have still more users with problem downloading the fullversion than with the online activation. Many of them thanked me for getting rid of the fullversion system! :)
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jack_norton: No it connects ONCE and then (unless you change PC) works forever. I have two activation server: if you cannot activate the game in 10 minutes I'll refund you the money. In thousands sales it never happened once (there was a very tiny minority of users that had firewall problems but that's it).
Honestly you might not believe it, but I have still more users with problem downloading the fullversion than with the online activation. Many of them thanked me for getting rid of the fullversion system! :)
It's still misleading to call it DRM-free though. I don't know how much you know about GOG.com, but a significant proportion of the users here are picky about DRM. I certainly won't be buying Planet Stronghold now I know it needs online activation.
Post edited July 03, 2011 by SirPrimalform
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SirPrimalform: Apart from that serial only being needed for multiplayer, once you have it it's yours. The serial is DRM free, you can just store it in a text file. Online activation is completely different! Even if it's one-time, that's one-time per install. Your installer is only useful if the activation servers are still running.

So, I see quite a big difference between emailing GOG for a multiplayer key and this, but maybe you don't. *shrug*
No no, I completely agree with you. In fact, in my email to jack_norton I explicitly stated this:
I won't buy any games that require me to rely on an 3rd party to be able to play them
This is why I took his "one time" to mean "one time ever" and not "one time per installation" (where the first is acceptable and the other one is not). I think the idea of the "if I can install and play it on a remote island without internet" as a check for if it has DRM or not is a good one.
Post edited July 03, 2011 by xyem
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xyem: This is why I took his "one time" to mean "one time ever" and not "one time per installation" (where the first is acceptable and the other one is not). I think the idea of the "if I can install and play it on a remote island without internet" as a check for if it has DRM or not is a good one.
Yes, that's the rule I use too. Offline serials and disc checks are the only DRM I accept.
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xyem: This is why I took his "one time" to mean "one time ever" and not "one time per installation" (where the first is acceptable and the other one is not). I think the idea of the "if I can install and play it on a remote island without internet" as a check for if it has DRM or not is a good one.
Yes I can see where you're getting at and yes makes sense. I can guarantee you'll be always able to play the game though. In the event I ever go bankrupt or stop being indie, will release all my games DRM-free (maybe even freeware).
I'd also like to point out that if you really want, I can also give you a simple fullversion download of the game. That's the advantage of dealing with indies ;)
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jack_norton: I'd also like to point out that if you really want, I can also give you a simple fullversion download of the game. That's the advantage of dealing with indies ;)
What difference is there between the two approaches? Does the full version allow install and play without an internet connection?
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jack_norton: I'd also like to point out that if you really want, I can also give you a simple fullversion download of the game. That's the advantage of dealing with indies ;)
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xyem: What difference is there between the two approaches? Does the full version allow install and play without an internet connection?
That's how it was before Planet Stronghold. That game was the first where he added DRM, so I suppose that's exactly what he says. I'm definitely gonna ask for a DRM free version for back-up purposes.
Yes, though I'm working on a serial system since is more practical - the full download might not be the latest version (I regularly update my games). I have a coder that sent me an updater system but have yet to try it :(
For any question just email me, in any case. As long as you bought the game(s), will give full support!
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jack_norton: ..snip..
I'd like to thank you for coming here and discussing our concerns, it is very appreciated :)
You're welcome :) I'm a gamer too so I understand people's doubts/concerns, and after being ignored on a problem I had with a game by a big AAA company (won't make the name...) I want to try to be as "customer friendly" as possible!