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I love the game, but sometimes I'm not in the mood for "do all this over just to get to where you died." If only they had injected at least a little variation rather than the same things in the same spots over and over. That's some "old school" I could do without. That said, the level of satisfaction when finally getting past something is much higher than in other games.
If you're having trouble with the gargoyles, you're gonna love Laurel and Hardy later.

Most has been said already, I think. Be cautious. Don't try to rush. Summon human / NPC help. Also, check your gear. You don't need the most badass heavy armor: a good shield and extra maneuverability due to lighter armor is much more important. If combat gives you trouble (what I mean is if you're having trouble surviving long enough), examine other options. Swords look cool, they're fast to swing, and swinging doesn't take too much stamina, but they're also not as damaging. Maybe invest in a heavy axe or something: you'll swing less often, but once you do, it's gonna hurt.

I beat the game using a greataxe (a weapon that's found comparatively early on) which I had upgraded with lightning. As for the armor, I used pieces I thought look cool, but would still enable me to keep at least a medium roll. Shield's very useful: 100% regular dmg block is very good to have: that way you can just block all the time until the enemy exhausts its stamina: that's your clue to swing the axe, move back, and retrieve your stamina.

Practice makes better. I killed the Asylum Demon, Taurus Demon and the Gargoyles on my first try. As for the latter, I don't think the second one had even entered the roof area before I had already killed the first gargoyle. Good luck! I hope you'll find a new inspiration once you learn the ropes a bit more. The game's truly a diamond.

As for the question, why aren't things explained more thoroughly. Matter of taste, I think. Personally, I think it was interesting that everything was a little mysterious and vague, and you had to do your own interpretations. The world is bleak and you're pretty much alone: who can you trust there? There's no-one to arrange the pieces of the puzzle for you, since they've either went insane, lost hope, or just don't know. The game urges you to think for yourself: I liked that.
That's because yours is yellow .
Yeah, so, that's why it ain't a game for me.
All right, I have found 2 areas I have not visited previously, one was guarded by a black knight thing so I passed, for the other one, I need to get trough a bunch of mobs that I keed dying to. Of course, to get there ... You know the story. Sigh.

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JudasIscariot: ...
Thanks for thos. I have figured out most of these things already, and yes, rolling does seem like a good idea very occassionally.

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MasodikTiasma: ...
Yeah, I've actually upgraded my weapon to +3 so far, am planning on upping that ASAP as the difference is quite noticeable.

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DProject: If you're having trouble with the gargoyles, you're gonna love Laurel and Hardy later.
Well that just makes me want to quit straight away.

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DieRuhe: I love the game, but sometimes I'm not in the mood for "do all this over just to get to where you died." If only they had injected at least a little variation rather than the same things in the same spots over and over.
Yup, a bit randomized respawns would be nice.
Post edited May 24, 2014 by Fenixp
low rated
it's not the game's fault you suck at it
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XYCat: it's not the game's fault you suck at it
Oh I'm not complaining about sucking at it, I'm complaining about all the boring repetition I'm good at that I have to trough to stop sucking at it. The repetitive fights agains the same opponents don't progress my experience further in any way, they're just easy and annoying. And non-avoidable.
Post edited May 24, 2014 by Fenixp
Completed Demon souls and Dark Souls. Thought the inventory system was easier in Dark Souls ,or maybe I was just able to carry more weapons ,etc without changing every 5 minutes.

Wait till you get cursed and have half hp!

I eventually caved in and checked online and found out I'd killed someone who could have traded or helped me and I found another source.

Also without spoliing it, unless you've played demon souls or read it online, interacting with the crow is something that is not explained in the game and would kind of be trial and error.
For your first play through, the Gargoyle boss is probably going to be the hardest boss in the game. It teaches you to keep trying different things until you find effective attacks and defense actions. Once you come up with a successful approach, all other bosses will be manageable*.

Myself, I wasn't sure about DS until I beat the Gargoyles. Now it's grown to be one of my favorites. I think that pair might have killed me 25-50 times, but I didn't want to use any guides. The victory was so sweet.

Don't fear death and play too conservatively. Humanity can be replaced, even in offline mode. Death is how you learn.

It's worth noting that the environment before the boss is like the first half of the boss battle. There's not much you can do with the gargoyles, but further on in the game you'll find yourself coming up with different routes, shortcuts, and tactics that will bring you to the boss battle in the least amount of time with the most health+estus flasks. Good job getting to Gargoyles without taking damage, BTW. I almost never managed that with my knight.


*with possible exception of OS.
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JudasIscariot: Try to avoid fat rolling. IIRC, in Dark Souls 1, whenever you are over 50% equipment load, you will be fat rolling. Fat rolling is when you make a really loud sound when trying to roll.
LOL, I beat the DS1 with my heavy Knight without knowing about fat rolling. That could have really helpful. That must be why DS2 seemed so much easier with my very lightly loaded sorcerer. XD
Post edited May 24, 2014 by Snickersnack
It's a pretty fun game if you stick with it and don't give up. I don't think it's old school though, they've just gotten rid of many things many have got used to over the years.
Highly overrated game, but fun for some.
ok thanks to this 3d i just bought ds1
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Fenixp: Snip...
I'm so tempted to make a joke about you now being the one who doesn't "get" the greatness of the amazing, perfect, old-school RPG. But I wont.

I haven't played Dark Souls because if I wanted to go mad doing something really hard for little-to-no reward I'd become a police officer. I think the appeal of the sameyness of unforgiving combat and vagueness in teaching comes from an over saturation of the opposites through out the 7th generation of gaming. Watchmen wasn't anywhere near as clever is it pretended to be and The Artist brought nothing new to cinema but in both cases as there hadn't been anything like them in recent memory so they were held up as beacons of change.There are hard 2D games like Super Meat Boy or La Maluna out there. But as a AAA 3D game it satisfies both the need for difficulty and graphics snobbery, ("Give me a HD triple A game that costs $60 or **** off" seems to be what a lot of gamers think). So Dark Souls has the advantage of martyrdom.

And connected to this is the fact that gamers are masochists, pure and simple. Prince of Persia 2008 had no death screen. When in trouble your character would be "saved" and the enemy's heath restored. The effect is not to different from dying in most modern games but without an overlong death-screen yelling "You suck!" and a kick back to the main menu gamers got angry. Mistress wasn't punishing them properly.

I'm playing Raptor: Call of the Shadows right now. So far this is the hardest game I've ever made progress with. There is a definite euphoria in beating a level that's been kicking my ass for hours but I can't see myself seeking out games this hard or harder because I'm interested in games as art. Any hack can make a hard game. Making something moving and memorable takes creativity. So I'm probably going back FPS games sooner or later.

All that said I'm not going to dismiss Dark Souls as garbage martyred by circumstance until I actually play it. It might have artistic qualities. But someone needs to convince me it's worth wading through the tedium of difficulty. Video game SnM ain't my thing.
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Fenixp: I ... Just ... All right, I've just played it a bit over 4 hours now, so I feel like I've finally given it a fair chance - with a controller, no less. The game itself is kind of fun, with combat having a lot of weight behind it which makes it quite satisfying. I've honestly not seen much of story to speak of, and while it's nice that you can piece it together from stuff like item description and the half-crazy dialogue, I have very little incentive to actually attempt to do that - I've not really seen anything interesting about it so far.

But I digress, it's gameplay that's important, right? So yeah, gameplay. It's good. I like how the weapons and especially their attack arcs behave, that's very nice. I also like the possibility to switch between one-handed and two-handed weilding, very neat idea, and some of the primitive 'combos' are interesting enough. What I do not understand are these things:
a) Where's the fun in repeating already memorized? So far, I have spent like 8 attempts to take down the gargoyle boss thing. The game was pretty much a breeze until then, this being a massive difficulty spike that just kind of ... Happened. So yeah, I fight the boss, I'm being careful, keeping my distance, learning its tells - 3 deaths. Me actually trying to utilize what I have learned - 4 deaths. The last death was the OTHER gargoyle which just sort of emerged all of the sudden, and BOTH of them suddenly using an attack I have never encountered in the game before. So yeah, that was the last death ("But it's your fault when you die!" my ass, I could have only predicted that if I seen a youtube playtrough.) Now I'm actually okay with that, I'm used to repeating boss fights from other hack and slash games so meh - what just constantly riles me up is that I repeatedly need to go trough the same set of enemies to get there. Some would argue that I learn the game better that way, but I never take damage - they're just an annoyance which slows every replay of the boss by good 5 minutes or so. It's like watching a 5 min long cutscene before I'm allowed my another go - and that's just an excercise in patience, not fun gameplay in any way. Well-designed games make me ragequit. Dark Souls made me leave in disgust while expecting another slog trough the same set of opponents.

b) What's the point of obscuring information? Now, I get games which don't hold your hand, but Dark Souls deliberately doesn't tell you anything. Oh yeah, "It's up to you to figure out" - that basically either means wasting loads of time with trial and error or booting up Dark Souls wiki, yet my experience is that the moment I'm forced to use a guide or walktrough, I will stop enjoying a game. Sooo... Yeah, I hope my mistake was not building my character wrong, because the game sure as hell won't tell me (lvl 17 or so Warrior, focused on Dex, Str and Vit)

So... Yeah. I no longer think it's terrible, just... Lacking. There doesn't seem to be much to do, and there doesn't seem to be much of interest to be found (and if there is, it's barred by the monsters with tons of HP that my weapon barely cratches). I do like the world design tho, especially how you keep unlocking paths connecting you to the previous locations, and then unlock paths FROM them. That's really cool.
I completely agree about "deliberately obscuring" information. That was the most annoying part of the game. There's a whole system in place and they tell you zilch about it. They've made up words to describe things that we have words for.

I think a part of it is for immersion. They want you to be just as confused about being dead as one might be if they suddenly died and found themselves in the land of the dead. But things made so little sense that I had to look them up after maybe 10 hours or so of completely unproductive gameplay.

As far as the gargoyles go, I beat them on my very first try. Once I got to them. I also built my character wrong. And that's another thing I didn't like about the game. They've obscured the mechanics enough that you have no idea if what you're doing is good. So, naturally, I started looking things up online to see what in the world different attributes did.

Once I did look some things up, I was surprised by some very horrible design choices. A rule of choice is that A) You know there's a choice, B) You know more or less the result of making the choice. I remember a character that if you happened to knock him off a cliff, you win! If you don't, you lose. And significantly. There was no indication in the game that this was even a valid action, let alone something that could save you.

But I first learned about it because someone left a marker telling me to kill him. And so, there is an indication. And I think this game had the Internet communications going on as part of its design. So, although this game would have failed miserably in 1980, the Internet along with the vague communication abilities make the game viable today -- and thrive.

Overall, I enjoyed the experience. But it was laden so heavily with repetition, grinding and eventually no location I could find without things insta-killing me, that I finally quit.

What I like is that I quit and others persevered. For some folks, they absolutely love the challenge, the thrill of real and meaningful discovery in a game and excitement of hard-fought victories.
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Johnmourby: I haven't played Dark Souls because if I wanted to go mad doing something really hard for little-to-no reward I'd become a police officer.
I actually laughed at that remark but then I remembered how utterly important that job is. The reward from that is knowing that you help people.

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Johnmourby: And connected to this is the fact that gamers are masochists, pure and simple. Prince of Persia 2008 had no death screen. When in trouble your character would be "saved" and the enemy's heath restored. The effect is not to different from dying in most modern games but without an overlong death-screen yelling "You suck!" and a kick back to the main menu gamers got angry. Mistress wasn't punishing them properly.
I'll agree that PoP's lack of death screen was extreme but I must say there's nothing worse than a long and tedious screen saying game over or something similar. Death, if it's a part of the game, should have consquences but the idea that the game should add humiliation on top of it, that's just wrong (IMO).
Post edited May 24, 2014 by Nirth
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Fenixp: Snip...
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Johnmourby: I'm so tempted to make a joke about you now being the one who doesn't "get" the greatness of the amazing, perfect, old-school RPG. But I wont.

I haven't played Dark Souls because if I wanted to go mad doing something really hard for little-to-no reward I'd become a police officer...
Great post in its entirety! I got a good laugh at the police officer comparison.