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General discussion (archive)I'm getting tired of "RPG elements" in non-rpg games(73 posts)(73 posts)
(73 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 01, 2012
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KyleKatarn: I like to see progress in a game but it sounds like what you're getting tired of is the Skinnerbox. Me too. It's why I didn't like Skyrim very much.
What the hell is a skinnerbox?
Posted May 01, 2012
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KyleKatarn: I like to see progress in a game but it sounds like what you're getting tired of is the Skinnerbox. Me too. It's why I didn't like Skyrim very much.
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Elmofongo: What the hell is a skinnerbox?
Operant Conditioning Chamber, where the gerbil hits the lever and gets a pellet, named after its founder. Kyle's using the term incorrectly. TES games lack many of the hallmarks of such things. The only thing really in line is the levelling system. TES games have actually gotten more casual w/Oblivion and, to a slightly lesser extent, Skyrim

It's frequently used in a slightly less scientific sense in MMO discussions.But MMORPGs were in fact heavily influenced by Behavioral Psych and it's not uncommon to have a Behaviorist consulting on a major project. MMORPGs are,. in fact, purposefully designed to be addictive.

Similar to gambling in casinos. They pump in oxygen, etc give you comps. Well in games, they provide tangible reward systems. The kind that are obvious and fair. The kind that don't exist IRL. The introduction of "RPG elements" by EA and ATVI is based on the likely addictive potential.
Post edited May 01, 2012 by cioran
Posted May 01, 2012
I think character development and decision making are only two of the many elements of RPG, and character development plays somewhat more important role. That's why a "RPG" without decision making can still be a RPG(dungeon crawler like Legend of Grimrock), aPRG, sRPG (strategy-RPG), JRPG, but a "RPG" without character development is only an adventure game.
Posted May 01, 2012
I'm getting tired of RPG elements in my car dashboard. I'm max level now but my car isn't stomping the high-level surrounding areas in my commute as much as one would think. I think the world's auto-leveling system is running on a version of Oblivion's engine, bug-filled and ultimately just obnoxious.
Posted May 02, 2012
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PhoenixWright: I'm getting tired of RPG elements in my car dashboard. I'm max level now but my car isn't stomping the high-level surrounding areas in my commute as much as one would think. I think the world's auto-leveling system is running on a version of Oblivion's engine, bug-filled and ultimately just obnoxious.
That's because you didn't respec your car for "fucked up crazy spring weather" driving before heading out to do high level content.

At this point, grinding rep with the Barrista faction is probably your best bet. You can do multiple dailies that will net you "the price of a latte". After you get access to their top level rewards you can just drop a profession, grind bicycle riding to over 9000. Ironically you can cast "all weather bicycle" on your car, so long as it's either a Prius or a pickup truck that's never had anything at all in the bed. If you don't have one of those, one of the Car Dealer faction members will sell you one. And then your problem is solved. I can't actually believe you haven't done this already, it's kinda obvious if you know the game at all.

L2P noob!
Post edited May 02, 2012 by orcishgamer
Posted May 02, 2012
Hello,

RPG is role playing game. A proper pencil and paper rpg is not about the stats and leveling or battling neverending waves of monsters, looting or character developement. Its about the interaction of your character with your friends characters and the interaction of the party with the world the game takes place in. Exploring dungeons is not for loot but for the fun of manovering your party more or less succesfull through it. So when problems or obstacles occure pencil and paper roleplaying groups get the most clever and stupid ideas of overcoming them. I played a lot of computer rpgs in my gamer life, but i did not encounter a single game that did capture the atmosphere and fun of a good pencil and paper role playing game.Video games are just too railroaded and offer too few multiple solutions for problems.

Every shooter has stats. Duke Nukem 3D, Unreal, Doom, Blood, Halflife and many other have plenty of stats: hit points, armor points, walking and running speed, speed booster, weapon range, weapon damage, jump height, jump height booster. Every shooter offers you to play a role, mostly the saviour of mankind So per definition every shooter is a role playing game. Many shooter offer multiple solutions to problems, like Deus EX, or the older shooters. Many shooter provide excellent atmosphere and a stunningly realistic world. Some offer exploration, mostly the older ones like Duke Nukem or Doom. So Shooter are rpg-games.

Many strategy games offer the possibilty to customize, level your hero units, or loot equipment for them. Like Panzergeneral, Fantasy General, Warcraft 3, Master of Magic, Total War Shogun 2, Fantasy Wars, Battle Isle Series and many more. Some offer you the possibility to build your own dynasty to stand the test of time. Crusader Kings or Sengoku. In Hearts of Iron you can level your Officer Corp for better perks. In Civilization you can roleplay a whole civ. So most strategy games are rpg games too.

Flying or Driving Simulations are driven by stats and leveling through a championship system. In most you can play for rewards as new cars, race tracks, upgrades for your car or skills for your driver. So Simulations have strong rpg elements too.

So most games have rpg elements. Most games that use rpg elements are more fun through this elements. What would Warcraft 3 be without the hero units? What would panzer general be like without building up your own customized army? Deus without implants and special skills. Oblivion without magic and items? World of Warcraft without loot? Crisis without force & armor power? What would Battlefield 3 be without a Rpg7?

I am not tired of rpg elements in games, i would like to see them better implemented and more of them. Exploration, loot gathering, stat building, leveling, building dynasties, owning your own home, building your castle, endless solutions for problems, governing your own country, managing your animal farm can never be wrong in a game to have fun.

Have a nice role playing day in the game called reallife :)
Post edited May 02, 2012 by torqual76
Posted May 02, 2012
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torqual76: I played a lot of computer rpgs in my gamer life, but i did not encounter a single game that did capture the atmosphere and fun of a good pencil and paper role playing game.Video games are just too railroaded and offer too few multiple solutions for problems.
You want to know something I don't get? How RPG fans seem to be obsessed with how close to the tabletop experience video games are(n't). This isn't an issue with fans of other game types, many of which don't have a tabletop equivalent.

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orcishgamer: That's because you didn't respec your car for "fucked up crazy spring weather" driving before heading out to do high level content.

At this point, grinding rep with the Barrista faction is probably your best bet. You can do multiple dailies that will net you "the price of a latte". After you get access to their top level rewards you can just drop a profession, grind bicycle riding to over 9000. Ironically you can cast "all weather bicycle" on your car, so long as it's either a Prius or a pickup truck that's never had anything at all in the bed. If you don't have one of those, one of the Car Dealer faction members will sell you one. And then your problem is solved. I can't actually believe you haven't done this already, it's kinda obvious if you know the game at all.
I mostly play Bus MMOs, though there was a server outage caused by striking mods in my city during February so I had to tide myself over with some F2P walking games.
Post edited May 02, 2012 by Aaron86
Posted May 02, 2012
In multilayer shooters it certainly does concern me. It can only aid to widening the gap between new and more experienced players, in a quite unfair way to I would say.

I suppose that only really goes for strait upgrades in that situation, other types of unlocks aren't as damaging. They can keep people interested in a game for longer. I suppose it's why MMO's started out as and pretty much still are RPG's.
Posted May 02, 2012
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Aaron86: You want to know something I don't get? How RPG fans seem to be obsessed with how close to the tabletop experience video games are(n't). This isn't an issue with fans of other game types, many of which don't have a tabletop equivalent.
But it is an issue with players of the same series of computer games.
"Oh, Silent Hill 3 was a patch on Silent Hill 2, no sense of the same atmosphere"
People look for the familiar, it can comfort them or help to evoke the same response as before, giving them a greater sense of understanding on this 'new' game they are playing.

Leveling has been in almost all computer games from the beginning; Doom had you find new guns as you progressed through the game, how is that functionally any different from acquiring a new level and choosing a new spell? The illusion of choice over which spell?

EDIT: D'oh! I see that torqual76 made the same point in his post in the "Every shooter has stats" paragraph, and far more eloquently.
Post edited May 02, 2012 by Matchstickman
Posted May 02, 2012
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Ash360: In multilayer shooters it certainly does concern me. It can only aid to widening the gap between new and more experienced players, in a quite unfair way to I would say.

I suppose that only really goes for strait upgrades in that situation, other types of unlocks aren't as damaging. They can keep people interested in a game for longer. I suppose it's why MMO's started out as and pretty much still are RPG's.
See above, the shooter unlocks and levelling is designed to make the games more addictive. It's working, too.
Posted May 02, 2012
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Ash360: In multilayer shooters it certainly does concern me. It can only aid to widening the gap between new and more experienced players, in a quite unfair way to I would say.

I suppose that only really goes for strait upgrades in that situation, other types of unlocks aren't as damaging. They can keep people interested in a game for longer. I suppose it's why MMO's started out as and pretty much still are RPG's.
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cioran: See above, the shooter unlocks and levelling is designed to make the games more addictive. It's working, too.
oh so multiplayer shooters without the unlockables are not addicting enough? where have you been during the unreal,quake,counter strike,halo 2, and battlefield 2 days?
Posted May 02, 2012
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Elmofongo: oh so multiplayer shooters without the unlockables are not addicting enough? where have you been during the unreal,quake,counter strike,halo 2, and battlefield 2 days?
I guess the developers/publishers think not...
Posted May 02, 2012
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torqual76: RPG is role playing game. A proper pencil and paper rpg is not about the stats and leveling or battling neverending waves of monsters, looting or character developement. Its about the interaction of your character with your friends characters and the interaction of the party with the world the game takes place in.
It's nice to see someone that's actually played pen and paper (and not just AD&D)!
Posted May 02, 2012
I would agree. I also would argue the opposite is worse to me: non-RPG elements in RPGs.

(A) Computer/console RPGs/etc with action elements, usually in "quick time events" or whatever they're called, like button mashing... Or platforming sequences... Or, well, look at Fallout 3.

(B) The awful bleed from MMOs into pen and paper RPG design from the big companies. (See D&D 4 for a gigantic example.)
Posted May 02, 2012
I love leveling in FPS games. It really boosts the MP replayability.
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General discussion (archive)I'm getting tired of "RPG elements" in non-rpg games(73 posts)(73 posts)
(73 posts)