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General discussion (archive)I'm getting tired of "RPG elements" in non-rpg games(73 posts)(73 posts)
(73 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted April 30, 2012
Well orcishgamer the only fps mulitiplayer game that does not have this unlocking grindfest is Counter Strike and hopefully Arma.

and also I'm voicing my brother's opinion about Warcraft 3's heroes since he played it more than me
Posted April 30, 2012
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Tychoxi: Read my post again before raging. And yes, like it or not, ARPGs are true RPGs.
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Fenixp: Yah. And as SimonG pointed out, the sign of a true RPG is "c) interaction and reactivity with the world." STALKER is far more of an RPG than Diablo.
So Star Control 2 is an RPG, Half-Life is an RPG, Rsident Evil is an RPG.... they all have C&C in regards to the story and provide interaction and reactivity in the game world based on your choices.
Posted April 30, 2012
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Tychoxi: So Star Control 2 is an RPG, Half-Life is an RPG, Rsident Evil is an RPG.... they all have C&C in regards to the story and provide interaction and reactivity in the game world based on your choices.
All right, I'll have to change that definition a little so you can see what I see as 'reactivity with the world.' An RPG is a game that lets you play a role of your choosing. Witcher is an RPG, you can make a lot of decisions, from trivial ones like order in which you explore the world, to crucial ones that change the world itself. TES games are RPGs, obviously. Fallout games are RPGs, for the same reasons. Half-Life ain't an RPG, neither is Resident Evil, for they don't allow you to play your role, they allow you to live a story of someone else. And what on earth is C&C? (for that matter, no, they don't have any in-game world to speak of, only gameplay influencing architecture.)

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N0x0ss: While J-RPGs are more restrective, it retain the same concept.
You control a character or bunch of character with distinct personalities, the story evolves around them and take into consideration their relationship.
So a "true" RPG for me is a game where you control and develop character/s with a freedom to a certain extinct, but also with important personalities.
I for one think that jRPGs only have RPG stamp because they have stats. Now don't get me wrong, I love RPGs, but the name itself implies the importantce of role-playing. In jRPGs, you almost never get that chance.
Posted April 30, 2012
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Elmofongo: Well orcishgamer the only fps mulitiplayer game that does not have this unlocking grindfest is Counter Strike and hopefully Arma.

and also I'm voicing my brother's opinion about Warcraft 3's heroes since he played it more than me
Monday Night Combat (not to be confused with the new SMNC)?

Halo (what unlocks exist in later versions are aesthetic only)

And of course there's tons of FPS that still get played even today that never have had these.

I get that it's the minority, but the point is, you're not exactly left game-less if you don't play these.
Posted April 30, 2012
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Elmofongo: Well orcishgamer the only fps mulitiplayer game that does not have this unlocking grindfest is Counter Strike and hopefully Arma.

and also I'm voicing my brother's opinion about Warcraft 3's heroes since he played it more than me
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orcishgamer: Monday Night Combat (not to be confused with the new SMNC)?

Halo (what unlocks exist in later versions are aesthetic only)

And of course there's tons of FPS that still get played even today that never have had these.

I get that it's the minority, but the point is, you're not exactly left game-less if you don't play these.
so rainbow six 3's multiplayer is still up and running?

(P.S. Halo 4 is going to change the aesthetics only unlockables with inclusion of weapon mods)
Post edited April 30, 2012 by Elmofongo
Posted April 30, 2012
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orcishgamer: Monday Night Combat (not to be confused with the new SMNC)?

Halo (what unlocks exist in later versions are aesthetic only)

And of course there's tons of FPS that still get played even today that never have had these.

I get that it's the minority, but the point is, you're not exactly left game-less if you don't play these.
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Elmofongo: so rainbow six 3's multiplayer is still up and running?

(P.S. Halo 4 is going to change the aesthetics only unlockables with inclusion of weapon mods)
Lucky for you a ton of people still play Reach and 3 right now. I never played Rainbow 6 3, but a ton of people still play UT2004 and Tribes/2, for example.

EDIT: I forgot about Gears of War... wow, does this mean console has better "pure" shooters than PC now?:)

It's as if a million PC elitists' brains just exploded...:)
Post edited April 30, 2012 by orcishgamer
Posted April 30, 2012
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Tychoxi: So Star Control 2 is an RPG, Half-Life is an RPG, Rsident Evil is an RPG.... they all have C&C in regards to the story and provide interaction and reactivity in the game world based on your choices.
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Fenixp: All right, I'll have to change that definition a little so you can see what I see as 'reactivity with the world.' An RPG is a game that lets you play a role of your choosing. Witcher is an RPG, you can make a lot of decisions, from trivial ones like order in which you explore the world, to crucial ones that change the world itself. TES games are RPGs, obviously. Fallout games are RPGs, for the same reasons. Half-Life ain't an RPG, neither is Resident Evil, for they don't allow you to play your role, they allow you to live a story of someone else. And what on earth is C&C? (for that matter, no, they don't have any in-game world to speak of, only gameplay influencing architecture.)

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N0x0ss: While J-RPGs are more restrective, it retain the same concept.
You control a character or bunch of character with distinct personalities, the story evolves around them and take into consideration their relationship.
So a "true" RPG for me is a game where you control and develop character/s with a freedom to a certain extinct, but also with important personalities.
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Fenixp: I for one think that jRPGs only have RPG stamp because they have stats. Now don't get me wrong, I love RPGs, but the name itself implies the importantce of role-playing. In jRPGs, you almost never get that chance.
Your choices in Star Control 2 make and unmake alliances, help you complete quests, doom or save spacefleets, put you in certain death, etc. And the races react to your choices, if you decide to sell crewmembers to slavery for example, humans will chastise you and getting crewmembers will get more expensive. In HL you make a choice at the end that has storyline consequences: you choose defiance and die, or choose compliance and are put in stasis. It also has reactivity, for example when you overheat the meal in the microwave oven it explodes and someone admonishes you for it. And there's more. In Resident Evil, your choices shape the storyline you play through (characters can live or die at different instances, sacrifice their lives for you, you may avert whole fight sequences, etc) and again characters will react to certain things you do or not do.

Some people will argue the Witcher doesn't let you play a role, it just casts you as a predefined character and you choices are limited due to that, in essence it only allows you to "live the story of someone else".

(C&C = choices and consequences)
Post edited April 30, 2012 by Tychoxi
Posted April 30, 2012
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Tychoxi: Some people will argue the Witcher doesn't let you play a role, it just casts you as a predefined character and you choices are limited due to that, in essence it only allows you to "live the story of someone else".
And I never said I don't consider Star Control 2 an RPG, you even have stats in a form in that game (you can upgrade your ship during the game.) Anyway, since the examples you gave are just stretching the definition to the point of ridicule (you know, I could apply that to your definition too, you get experience in Crysis 2 so it's clearly an RPG.) I'm just doing to end the discussion right here unless you come up with reasonable arguments.
Posted April 30, 2012
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Elmofongo: so rainbow six 3's multiplayer is still up and running?

(P.S. Halo 4 is going to change the aesthetics only unlockables with inclusion of weapon mods)
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orcishgamer: Lucky for you a ton of people still play Reach and 3 right now. I never played Rainbow 6 3, but a ton of people still play UT2004 and Tribes/2, for example.

EDIT: I forgot about Gears of War... wow, does this mean console has better "pure" shooters than PC now?:)

It's as if a million PC elitists' brains just exploded...:)
Off topic: Here is a Surprise: I have never played Call of Duty 4's multiplayer because when it was released I never had a good internet connection but now I do so is the multiplayer still up and running on the PC version?
Post edited April 30, 2012 by Elmofongo
Posted April 30, 2012
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Fenixp: And I never said I don't consider Star Control 2 an RPG, you even have stats in a form in that game (you can upgrade your ship during the game.) Anyway, since the examples you gave are just stretching the definition to the point of ridicule (you know, I could apply that to your definition too, you get experience in Crysis 2 so it's clearly an RPG.) I'm just doing to end the discussion right here unless you come up with reasonable arguments.
Yeah, that's fine. I consider your definition for RPG to be too broad (it leaves in games I don't consider RPGs), and you consider my definition to be too narrow (it leaves out games you consider to be RPGs) and nothing will change our respective points of view!
(PS: I would like it if you would tell me whether you consider ME an RPG or not. Just a yes or no,I won't argue with you just want to know! Cheers.)
Post edited April 30, 2012 by Tychoxi
Posted April 30, 2012
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orcishgamer: Lucky for you a ton of people still play Reach and 3 right now. I never played Rainbow 6 3, but a ton of people still play UT2004 and Tribes/2, for example.

EDIT: I forgot about Gears of War... wow, does this mean console has better "pure" shooters than PC now?:)

It's as if a million PC elitists' brains just exploded...:)
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Elmofongo: Off topic: Here is a Surprise: I have never played Call of Duty 4's multiplayer because when it was released I never had a good internet connection but now I do so is the multiplayer still up and running on the PC version?
I thought MW had servers (they got rid of public servers for MW2 iirc), if that's the case you should be able to still find servers that are up. At any rate, a quick google-fu indicates CoD4 and CoD2 official servers are still up.

And finally, this is why I find the whole debate about "RPG elements" to be silly:

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/western-japanese-rpgs-part-1
http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/western-japanese-rpgs-part-2
http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/western-japanese-rpgs-part-3

Sorry about the 3 parter, well worth the watch, though. Basically people are conflating mechanics (which are only typically common to a genre) with the actual genre (which is often a misnomer, or shouldn't even be a "genre" anyway).
Post edited April 30, 2012 by orcishgamer
Posted April 30, 2012
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Tychoxi: I consider your definition for RPG to be too broad
Well actually, I don't consider stuff like Diablo or Dungeon Siege an RPG (thus the word aRPG), so I think that, in the end, I'd probably mark less games as true RPGs than you would. As for Mass Effect, I do consider them RPGs, but they're right there on the borderline. They give you a lot of freedom in decisions, they however hardly give you too much freedom in movement or interactions, even less since ME2. So yes, I do consider them RPGs, but they're often too restrictive for my linking.
Posted April 30, 2012
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Elmofongo: Off topic: Here is a Surprise: I have never played Call of Duty 4's multiplayer because when it was released I never had a good internet connection but now I do so is the multiplayer still up and running on the PC version?
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orcishgamer: I thought MW had servers (they got rid of public servers for MW2 iirc), if that's the case you should be able to still find servers that are up. At any rate, a quick google-fu indicates CoD4 and CoD2 official servers are still up.

And finally, this is why I find the whole debate about "RPG elements" to be silly:

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/western-japanese-rpgs-part-1
http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/western-japanese-rpgs-part-2
http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/western-japanese-rpgs-part-3

Sorry about the 3 parter, well worth the watch, though. Basically people are conflating mechanics (which are only typically common to a genre) with the actual genre (which is often a misnomer, or shouldn't even be a "genre" anyway).
this is not me about me saying this is ruining the genre this is me saying that I'm getting tired of every shooter has to have rpg elements in their multiplayers
Posted May 01, 2012
I like to see progress in a game but it sounds like what you're getting tired of is the Skinnerbox. Me too. It's why I didn't like Skyrim very much.
Posted May 01, 2012
Couldn't care less about multiplayer shooters and I like RPG mechanics in pretty much any singleplayer game.
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Community
General discussion (archive)I'm getting tired of "RPG elements" in non-rpg games(73 posts)(73 posts)
(73 posts)