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langurmonkey: Yes, being abrasive and impolite to people is a huge hindrance but people should stay loyal to who they are inside, no matter what. That is what I believe. You can make life a lot easier by not stepping on toes but is that the right way to live? Not in my eyes.
I believe this kind of depends. Sure people should be honest about their own feelings to themselves - the BIG BUT (in my opinion) is that if you find yourself stepping on other people's toes every single day, time after time again, you should take a good look at the mirror and think a bit is it really necessary.

Knowing how to be aggressive is good, but being aggressive often, is often pretty fruitless.

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langurmonkey: I believe people shouldn't cater to others if it means they have to become a different person. That is like telling your true self "Fuck you, I hate you". I have too much respect for myself and love for myself to not be myself.
I dont know what kind of person your are, but i know one has to balance (self-) respect and humbleness very carefully indeed.

Actually there are not that many times and things that are truly fighting for - I mean, especially in Internet - why should anyone get off railed by some random dudes random comment? That kind of fighting means nothing, achieves nothing.

In real life conflicts just smiling and stepping away is usually far better, than getting stuck with some encounter. Ofcourse I can speak only for myself, but I know my own worth, my own values and opinions - for me its not necessary that others "must" agree with them. Sure Ive had my own share of encounters where being stubborn and loud about your opinion has been necessary - but thats really a rarity.

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langurmonkey: Of course, I believe people should conform when in the military(because it is your duty as a soldier to conform) or at work(because your employer is paying you to conform) or when someone has a gun to your head(because nobody wants to die). But outside of work, the military in a safe place, I think people should be themselves even if that means I personally will find them extremely annoying.
Actually I think that military (in war time) and work are the places where you have to be strategically unbending and not a mindless drone. But ofcourse that depends alot on your position.

Are you familiar with Stanislav Petrov and Vasili Akhipov?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Arkhipov

If they had conformed according to army rules, we would all be sitting in radioactive holes atm.

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langurmonkey: I also believe when you are being yourself, you are being honest and open with everyone around you. That is why, people should appreciate people being themselves even if they find some of such people extremely abrasive.
If i find someone extremely abrasive, in the kind of aggressive way - I simply step away. I do appreciate people who really know themselves and act accordingly - but in reality there are unfortunately whole lot of more people who "think" they know themselves and just act like they were the pinnacle of whole world.

This kind of people I do not appreciate one bit.

Pride is a dangerous thing.
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langurmonkey: Down reping is a horrible form of bullying here at GOG general discussion. And I think people shouldn't be bullied for being themselves. But people who bully people for being themselves are being themselves, yes. But I think bullying is a behaviour so horrible that I do wish to see it gone from this Earth even if it means, some people wont be allowed to be themselves. Oh well. And as you can see, I'm paying the cost for me being me. I really don't understand you. Your brain is going from A B C to G.
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orcishgamer: "I am a tough, individualist that will be myself no matter what, but please don't hurt my feelings!"
Never did I communicate this message.

If in the past, I've said something like, I believe everyone should be true to themselves, I wasn't thinking then because I really want people to conform to my desires. Your words have made me realize this now. I'm just as intolerant as most people. I want what I want like everybody else. The flag I'm marching under is only for what I want. So very understandable that some people got pissed off at me. But I'm still against bullying by down reping here at this forum. So your words have made me realize, I'm not that much different from others when it comes to being accepting. But nothing more. I still think, I should stay true to myself, to the death. I will bend over for nobody. So let this thread die, and I will cease sharing my thoughts with others here because like I said earlier, I see no point in sharing my thoughts here if there is nothing to gain but arguments, down reped posts. It seems, my thoughts are very much wanted here because this thread has been very active with talk of me.

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CaptainGyro: I dunno man. I know this type of thing has been said a lot of times before, but
I'm getting a definite GameRager vibe. It's not just the whole rep thing, but I remember GR talking about being true to himself and being an asshole a longtime ago.
The GameRager posts I read, were nothing like my posts.
Post edited January 10, 2013 by langurmonkey
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CaptainGyro: I dunno man. I know this type of thing has been said a lot of times before, but
I'm getting a definite GameRager vibe.
I thought this was common knowledge by now?

I'm always a bit amazed when perfectly intelligent posters spend pages arguing with guys like him and their weird hang-ups. Presumably they get something out of it, and that's fine, but it does make for some strange reading.
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Maybe I should start charging people for the entertainment. :P If I knew this thread would turn into what it is now, I would of never created this thread. I just wanted the people who didn't mind me so much or like me to say best wishes or something like that due to me not sharing my thoughts in this forum anymore. I should of known better.
Post edited January 10, 2013 by langurmonkey
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langurmonkey: I realized something about this forum after seeing most of my posts down reped here.
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/repeated_downreping_lousy_behaviour
That the majority of active members here do not like my beliefs, my personality, my way of looking at things and everything else about me.
Vast majority of forum visitors have no idea who you or anyone else in the forum is. Or care.
I'm mostly sticking to game specific subforums myself.

High drama on general forum sometimes, but majority of posts is about the games elsewhere.

Game forum, if you have political convictions...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDSN1F72QU4
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langurmonkey: The GameRager posts I read, were nothing like my posts.
OK that's good enough for me then! Why didn' 't you say so? Must be a false alarm
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langurmonkey: The GameRager posts I read, were nothing like my posts.
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CaptainGyro: OK that's good enough for me then! Why didn' 't you say so? Must be a false alarm
CaptainGyro of the GameRager Detection Squad aka GDS. Is that who you think you are? I'm not GameRager. I can see it now, 100 years from now, a new GOG general discussion member will say something that enrages some people and then someone will go "Are you GameRager?". LOL GameRager will become immortal. And GameRager has 153 rep. There is no way, I could get my rep that high.
Post edited January 10, 2013 by langurmonkey
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langurmonkey: Maybe I should start charging people for the entertainment. :P If I knew this thread would turn into what it is now, I would of never created this thread.
Of course you would have. You need the attention. A whole thread just for you, where people talk about you and your problems, that is pretty cool. You're having a group therapy session where it's your turn all the time. I understand what you're getting out of it, but what about the other guys? Fascination with the freakish? Genuine concern? Boredom? It is pretty weird.

Whatever. Just peace out, man. Relax a bit. It's all fine.
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langurmonkey: Maybe I should start charging people for the entertainment. :P If I knew this thread would turn into what it is now, I would of never created this thread.
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Ivory&Gold: Of course you would have. You need the attention. A whole thread just for you, where people talk about you and your problems, that is pretty cool. You're having a group therapy session where it's your turn all the time. I understand what you're getting out of it, but what about the other guys? Fascination with the freakish? Genuine concern? Boredom? It is pretty weird.

Whatever. Just peace out, man. Relax a bit. It's all fine.
Well I have been feeling very lonely, lately.
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langurmonkey: Yes, being abrasive and impolite to people is a huge hindrance but people should stay loyal to who they are inside, no matter what.
The thing is, you should question this mystique a bit. You're not yourself, you haven't been faithful to yourself since you were born. You have "betrayed yourself" by learning to go to the toilet instead of shitting your pants, by learning to say hello and thank you, by learning to brush you teeth, to wait for the diner, to eat dessert last, and not plug little rocks up your nose. You also "betray yourself" by not driving drunk, not groping people who arouse you, not punching people when you're in a bad mood. And you've "betrayed yourself" every time you've learnt something that has gone against your common sense so far, and changed your perceptions of things (earth gravitates around the sun, dolphins are mammals, etc).

In psy terms, you could claim that you "betray yourself" each time your superego censors your id, if you claim your id is your "true self". Socially, you "betray yourself" each time you're shaped by society, but the thing is : you've been constantly shaped by society, there is no "true you at the state of nature", you have kept adapting to new sets of gratifications/sanctions, you have kept integrating new understanding of people, that have transformed your public -and private- begaviour. Until a point where, at worst, you've decided that some arbitrarily selected intemporal present is a "true self" and any further evolution or adaptation (in terms of "feedback feedback" or assimilated understanding) is a betrayal or an humiliation or a compromission. And you may have entered some mystique of worshipping this pseudo-intemporal self as the "real you", discarding the rest as false. A bit like xenophobic nationalists envision their country (or its near past) as an untouched culture suddenly threatened by change, migrations, and outer influences, without realising that what their represent themselves as an unchanged-so-far national identity is itself the dynamic product of such perpetual changes - a product that happened to be in place at the given time where they were born, and that they wish t freeze because it looked like it had been eternal to them.

The whole "be oneself" thing is dangerous. It presupposes that you are not wrong, or that if you're wrong, then you're right to be wrong. It presupposes that you have achieved some know-it-all state where there is nothing more you can learn, grasp, assimilate, that would justify a shift in behaviour. It's a glorification of conservatism in the most narrow and dangerous sense : it disqualifies self-questionning and evolution as bad things by themselves, because the present time (projected as an eternal static past) is worshipped as the pinnacle of everything that could be. And all changes (except most superficial, going in the same direction as current projects and intentions) are supposed to go downhill from there.

So, you should be wary about your pride to be yourself. As others point out, bullies, rapists, racists, wife beating morons, all can take pride in "being their true self" and "not letting others change their ways" and "being faithful to their outlooks". "I yam what I yam" can justify every attitude. It's not a value in itself, or a matter of pride. We're perpetual kids, in front of what there is yet to grasp in order to become a truly fair human, and kids can't go "this is my true self" to justify rolling on the floor screaming when they're being refused a candy, or picking up and putting dog crap in their mouth.

Now, there are things to fight for, and integrity is a very important value, because childishness can very well be on the side of the crowd exerting the "educationnal peer-pressure". The point is, being faithful to something has to be justified, defended, debated, questionned. Once you get all mystical, and decide to be fanatically "faithful" to something as evolutive and neutral as "oneself", something compatible with so many possible contents (every different "oneself" on earth), you just arbitrarily freeze something by cancelling any possibility of self-criticism and further amelioration. It becomes pure narcissism, and locks yourself in some eternal, circular, self-legitimation, whoever you are.

"Being oneself" as if there was some unquestionnable, pure, eternal "oneself" to be revealed and defended against any mutation, is a dangerous logic. Every person you used to be, from time where you considered that being fed was a matter of screaming loud enough, could have claimed the same thing to justify staying the same and to disqualify other people's expectations.
Downrepping is a horrible bully and I hate him! He beats me up, takes my lunch money and then makes out with my mom :(
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CaptainGyro: OK that's good enough for me then! Why didn' 't you say so? Must be a false alarm
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langurmonkey: CaptainGyro of the GameRager Detection Squad aka GDS.
See that type of corny joke sounds like something that Gameager would post and then say "silly mode off".
And I don't think you were Gamerager just because you enraged people , I noticed a similarity because of the whole " being an asshole is being true to yourself " type thingy. Not to mention talking about rep like he would often do,
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CaptainGyro: See that type of corny joke sounds like something that Gameager would post and then say "silly mode off".
And I don't think you were Gamerager just because you enraged people , I noticed a similarity because of the whole " being an asshole is being true to yourself " type thingy. Not to mention talking about rep like he would often do,
Your post was silly too. Don't be afraid to admit that.
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CaptainGyro: See that type of corny joke sounds like something that Gameager would post and then say "silly mode off".
And I don't think you were Gamerager just because you enraged people , I noticed a similarity because of the whole " being an asshole is being true to yourself " type thingy. Not to mention talking about rep like he would often do,
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keeveek: Your post was silly too. Don't be afraid to admit that.
Well his "the gamerager posts I've read were nothing like mine" was a silly rebuttal.

Ok I think we've hit our quota for using the word " silly" in this thread.
Post edited January 10, 2013 by CaptainGyro
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CaptainGyro: Ok I think we've hit our quota for using the word " silly" in this thread.
Graham Chapman would probably agree.

Also, speaking of rep (sorry langurmonkey), +1 Telika for the insightful post.
Post edited January 10, 2013 by PimPamPet