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OldFatGuy: Now could you please explain to me how "3rd-party DRM: Solidshield Tages SAS 3 machine activation limit" equals I have to register and join at another website rather than simply having to input a code at another website??? Because maybe I missed something somewhere. I thoght that meant I might have to input a code.
"You thought that meant" equals to "not knowing", which you can (and do) blame on Steam, but should at the very least include yourself, too.

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OldFatGuy: And I just now clicked on the Assassin's Creed 3 link, and YES, there it is, a UBI PLAY ACCOUNT IS REQUIRED.

That's ALL they needed to put on the Anno 2070 page. And none of this would've happened.

But they didn't.

And that's on STEAM.

Boy, you fanboys just can't take it when they really fuck up can you??? LOL
Ubisoft and it's always-on DRM has been in the gaming news since Assassins Creed 2, which came out early 2010 for PC. That's almost 3 years now - where have you been?

One last note: not everyone with a different opinion on this is automatically a Steam fanboy. But it's obvious that you're a hater.
I also tested Steam again.

Steam in 2012 is still bloated, slow and buggy. The overview is always full with heavy graphics, though the software can't manage it. Videos start automatically (note: didn't go through preferences, maybe it can be turned off.) There are constant graphic bugs interfering with the other browsers, e. g. Steam usually covers bits of the browser UI.

When you install a software, it tells you sth. like this: 46 MB, almost two minutes. The actual result will be: 46 MB, then 3 different update processes including installation of a framework the requirements didn't talk about, a failed attempt to start the game due to a DirectX error, which suddenly goes away after a Steam restart. Outcome: 20 minutes.

I won't even try big downloads like 9GB, because I doubt that this software has proper resuming.

The support sucks and it's in the USA, so you don't have any rights as a European.

Instead of a smart account concept, every game can require its own account, so Steam had the chance to unify and simplify but it achieves the opposite.

Add up different horror stories and I think a lot before purchasing anything.
Yes, I admit "thought that meant" DOES EQUAL "not knowing", and you can blame me all you want for not knowing, there are lots and lots and lots of stuff I don't know, and you too, and everyone else on this planet too, but the FACT remains that I'm not the only person in the world that also doesn't know this and the FACT remains that it's the duty of someone selling something to INFORM those that don't know BEFORE a purchase. And Steam did not do this in this case.

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Siannah: One last note: not everyone with a different opinion on this is automatically a Steam fanboy. But it's obvious that you're a hater.
No, not everyone with a differing opinion is automatically a Steam fanboy, and yes, I am an admitted Steam hater, as every single gamer on the face of this earth would've been better off if Steam had never been invented OR if it had been and failed miserably, but I digress.

The FACT is, not opinion, IN THIS CASE, they did NOT inform a potential purchaser of a reqirement to play a game before purchase. And that is ON STEAM.

And with the exception of one or two or three posters since my post last night, every one of you have had the same, knee-jerk it must somehow be MY fault because Steam could never, ever do anything wrong.

THAT is, BY DEFINITION, fanboyism.

But don't fret, you're not alone. Look at the sheer number of knee jerked "It MUST BE OFG'S FAULT" posts here, there are lots and lots of you fanboys.
Post edited December 24, 2012 by OldFatGuy
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OldFatGuy: THANK YOU.

I admit to not liking Steam, but I also try to be fair (see the my earlier posts in this very thread. In this instance, STEAM IS WRONG. And I should get a refund. Because it does NOT list this as a reqirement, and it should. Unless of course, Ubisoft games requiring an Ubisoft account is so widely known that no living human being should not realize that. I dunno, but I've got a feeling I'm not the only living human being that didn't realize that before tonight.
The DRM for Ubisoft's games is so fucked up that I don't think there's a living soul that could tell you the requirements from one game to another. Ubi keeps changing their requirements from game to game.

I agree that Steam is in error here. They're usually pretty good about pointing out third party DRM requirements, but they obviously screwed the pooch on this one. I don't agree with those that think you should automatically know which Ubi games require Uplay and which don't. Hell, I personally just avoid Ubi's games altogether due to their flip-flopping on DRM. It's just easier on the head that way.
http://wizzywizzyweb.gmgcdn.com/media/products/crusader-kings-complete/manual/crusader-kings-complete_manual.pdf

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/content.php?857-Crusader-Kings-II-Manual

dunno if someone posted these
Yes thank you very much. The original reason for this thread was resolved thanks to folks like you who helped me find the manuals and I admitted, as I hinted at in the very first post, that this was NOT Steam's fault, and that it was the distributor's fault for not including the manual. I wish Steam (and ALL download distributors) would require a manual for games they choose to sell, but, the bottom line is, the fault in that case was NOT Steam and belonged to the distributor.

However, it took on a new direction when I got re-Steamed last night from a completely different issue. I purchased a game from them and they neglected to tell me about a requirement for playing before I purchased. Had I known that requirement, I would not have purchased, and as such, am entitled to a refund. And if I don't get one, then I'm really going to be Steamed.
Post edited December 24, 2012 by OldFatGuy
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OldFatGuy: The FACT is, not opinion, IN THIS CASE, they did NOT inform a potential purchaser of a reqirement to play a game before purchase. And that is ON STEAM.

And with the exception of one or two or three posters since my post last night, every one of you have had the same, knee-jerk it must somehow be MY fault because Steam could never, ever do anything wrong.

THAT is, BY DEFINITION, fanboyism.

But don't fret, you're not alone. Look at the sheer number of knee jerked "It MUST BE OFG'S FAULT" posts here, there are lots and lots of you fanboys.
Ubisoft: Anno 2070 DRM Works As Intended
Ubisoft BlueByte Changes Anno 2070 DRM
Driver: San Francisco & Anno 2070 Affected By Ubi DRM
Ubisoft Asking DRM Questions – Here Are Some Answers
UDon’tPlay: UbiDRM Servers Wobble During Steam Sale
Ubisoft Scrapping Always-On DRM For PC Games

This is a really quick and dirty list from one gaming site (RPS), covering 1 year (2012), the game Anno 2070 and Ubisoft DRM.

You now expect the staff running Steam / Valve to cover all developments in all possible ways for all games, at all times. Even the thought that they (Steam) may rely on infos they're getting from the actual publisher / developer, is too much to ask.
All the while, you refrain from any self-responsibility or liability.

You can consider me a Steam fanboy as much as you want, it doesn't make it anymore true. I would advise you however, to look through the Steam Subscriber Agreement.
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OldFatGuy: Yeah, another Steam sucks thread I guess, as I admit I don't like them, but the truth is this might not be Steam's fault and the fault may lie with the distributor, I just don't know. All I know is I don't like what happened. But I loved the Civilization series and the Fallout series and, well, after realizing most other consumers were giving in to this nonsense, I did too and bought those games and opened a Steam account.

So today, I power up my computer, and the first thing that comes up is Steam stuff, as usual, and I see this game advertised for 75% that sounds an awful lot like a Lord of the Realms sequel, and I LOVED LOTR.

So I bit, only 12 bucks and some change, but I bit. It was a game called Crusader King's 2. So, naturally, I thought, mmmm, Crusader Kings 1???? And Steam had that one too for $2.99. Cool, I thought, and made the splash.

NO MANUAL. For either of them.

No friggin manual always aggravates me. I'm one of those anal players that ALWAYS reads a manual BEFORE I play as I simply hate to play a game I don't already understand.

So no manual. Perhaps a decision by Steam, or perhaps this stupid game company never even made a manual, I don't know, but what I do know is that for almost all 233 of my titles here at GoG, a manual is included, and that's how it should be.

I'm steamed.

EDITED: Fixed the name of the game to show correctly "Crusader Kings 2"
Almost all modern games have a wikia site now days which will probably contain more detailed information than your average manual. I'd suggest trying the various fansites, this game is very popular and there should be all the info that you could ever want out there. In a way game companies can't hope to compete with the detailed and up to date user generated information, that's one of the reasons we see less manuals.
Oh, so potential customers of Steam are supposed to read the entire internets before purchase???

What a joke.

Dude, Steam has a responsibility to list REQUIREMENTS for a game. that simple. They failed to list this one. That simple.

And yet you continue to insist that this is somehow MY fault.

If that's not a fanboy, I don't know what is. Steam just screwed up in this instance, and it's not my fault. And it's not surprising. Most people understand that no entity is perfect, and will make mistakes. Steam was wrong in this case. And only a fanboy would keep insisting that they can do no wrong.

You don't like the term fanboy, I don't blame you. If I had to do this thread over again, I think I would try to do it without that term. But it doesn't change the fact that in this case Steam was wrong and yet some still insist it's somehow my fault.

I just get so tired of this shit, and fanboy is the only term I know of. But I guess it is a perjorative, and so I should try and avoid using it. That's on me, my bad.

And you wanna know the real shit of the matter??? LOL, I actually found ANOTHER game on their special list I would like. And if they give me a refund for Anno 2070, I will consider buying it. But everyday their specials come up on my screen when I boot up, and I've gotta say, some of them look like great games. So it's not like I don't want to give them more money. I just want them to own up to this mistake, refund my money, and then Steam and I can move on.

But I'm expecting the worse. Probably my bias against Steam again, and I hope I'm wrong. Because that half price game I saw today looked AWESOME.
Post edited December 24, 2012 by OldFatGuy
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Perscienter: I also tested Steam again.

Steam in 2012 is still bloated, slow and buggy. The overview is always full with heavy graphics, though the software can't manage it. Videos start automatically (note: didn't go through preferences, maybe it can be turned off.) There are constant graphic bugs interfering with the other browsers, e. g. Steam usually covers bits of the browser UI.

When you install a software, it tells you sth. like this: 46 MB, almost two minutes. The actual result will be: 46 MB, then 3 different update processes including installation of a framework the requirements didn't talk about, a failed attempt to start the game due to a DirectX error, which suddenly goes away after a Steam restart. Outcome: 20 minutes.

I won't even try big downloads like 9GB, because I doubt that this software has proper resuming.

The support sucks and it's in the USA, so you don't have any rights as a European.

Instead of a smart account concept, every game can require its own account, so Steam had the chance to unify and simplify but it achieves the opposite.

Add up different horror stories and I think a lot before purchasing anything.
Hmmm...I must wonder about your computer. I have steam running on multiple types of computers from 6 year old computers to a brand new computer and I do not see any of the issues you are mentioning in your first paragraph. It runs smooth on all of them, during christmas sales it will lag but because of high volume.

As for your second issue...I would agree I believe they should have it so you can say not to install directx, or what not if it is already installed on your system. That would be great. Heck, it might be possible, I just have never worried about it...usually it only takes an extra 10-20 seconds anyhow, so not a big deal.

Yes, sometimes steam needs to be restarted after installing something...big deal...a crap load of games (even newer ones) have required system restarts in the past. Again, a couple of minutes...but lets blame Steam=)

Actually, steam is very good at resuming updates...a helluva lot better than some newer digital distributors to the table. I personally have not had a corrupted download through steam, but it has happened with gamersgate, and god let me know even mention the recent adventures with Strategy Firsts download manager.

Meh...most digital distributors support sucks unless gog who will try to help. To be fair, any technical issues not related to steam should be dealt with the game developer, not steam. Also, the majority of the people will always blame the game when it is most likely their own system which is the issue.

And how can every game require an account...that is not steam's fault. Steam is a platform, they do not control other developers and publishers. If Ubisoft, Origin, and what not want their own platform they are going to do what they want. Go yell at Ubisoft, Origin for making their own platform's. The only thing Valve could have done was tell them to go fuck off, and not release there game their but thats not a good business decision for valve.

Get rid of the development of steam so many years ago and pc gaming would be almost dead today, believe that! Steam did get lazy when impulse got sold to Gamestop though as they really do not have any competition in the market.

Although on a funny note...you can now buy steam cards at gamestop lol...gamestop is working on a way to exploit it as we speak.
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OldFatGuy: Yes thank you very much. The original reason for this thread was resolved thanks to folks like you who helped me find the manuals and I admitted, as I hinted at in the very first post, that this was NOT Steam's fault, and that it was the distributor's fault for not including the manual. I wish Steam (and ALL download distributors) would require a manual for games they choose to sell, but, the bottom line is, the fault in that case was NOT Steam and belonged to the distributor.

However, it took on a new direction when I got re-Steamed last night from a completely different issue. I purchased a game from them and they neglected to tell me about a requirement for playing before I purchased. Had I known that requirement, I would not have purchased, and as such, am entitled to a refund. And if I don't get one, then I'm really going to be Steamed.
Sorry to hear that mate, you have my total sympathy, I got screwed over with Baldurs Gate Enhanced, it wont launch for me, unfotunately its a digital download, so I cant even use it as a damn coaster :)


Maybe we were both naughty and its santas digital version of a lump of coal for us :)
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OldFatGuy: Dude, Steam has a responsibility to list REQUIREMENTS for a game. that simple. They failed to list this one. That simple.
Dude, even on the official Ubisoft page for Anno 2070 is listed under requirements: Temporary broadband connection for product registration, permanent broadband connection for multiplayer.
The whole Uplay-thing is mentioned in the description (achievements / rewards) but nowhere as a requirement.

Yet you insist, that it's completely and without a shadow of a doubt the fault of Steam. That's not a fact, that's an opinion.

I just checked it on Gamersgate. They additionally listed: high speed internet access and a valid Uplay account are required to access online features, play online or unlock exclusive content.
Nowhere is stated that you'll need it for singleplayer. At all. But I'd guess that's also Steam's fault, isn't it? It just must be....

And for the record: you can search the whole Internet, you wont find where I stated that Steam can do no wrong, in any shape or form. Claiming otherwise twice won't change that.

To save yourself (well, mostly me) from yet another future Steam-sucks rant, you might want to check on the Uplay wiki for a list of games to stay away from.
Post edited December 24, 2012 by Siannah
If you hate it stop using so or stop writing here with your whining about it
If you hate it and use it instead of something like GG or retail copies without Steamworks being needed its your own fault
GOOD: Steam does list additional DRM
BAD: it's in very small type, and low contrast, to try to get you not to pay attention to it

GOOD: Anno2070 (or whatever the number is) used to be playable offline
BAD: part of the game is turned off if you play offline

Ubisoft in general has been doing ridiculous DRM shenanigans for the past 4-5 years. Before buying anything from them (and to a lesser extent EA) you have to double-check the DRM gotchas by researching at third parties what the deal is.

Steam should do a better job making this information clear and available (their value is in being a walled garden! So it had better not get choked with weeds!). But they're kind of uneven, like the steam software itself. That's how it is.
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Perscienter: I won't even try big downloads like 9GB, because I doubt that this software has proper resuming.
Huh? Of course it has proper resuming, it's a distribution platform above all. Proper resuming was included when the bloody thing started (as opposed to store and all the crap on top of it, which Steam obviously isn't really built for in it's current state. However, while kind of slow, Steam's store page is the easiest one to navigate I've seen in a while, only GOG's is probably better.)
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jsjrodman: GOOD: Steam does list additional DRM
BAD: it's in very small type, and low contrast, to try to get you not to pay attention to it.
It's written in exactly the same font as the rest of game's info.
Post edited December 24, 2012 by Fenixp