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General discussion (archive)HumbleBundle Store introduces regional pricing option(92 posts)(92 posts)
(92 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 18, 2014
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paul1290: Now correct me if I'm wrong, and somebody else here probably knows more about this than I do, but GOG is in a slightly better position to avoid that shaky "justification" because they don't have to pay some of those taxes, or at least they don't have to pay as much. This is partly because GOG operates out of Cyprus.
The only things that GOG benefits from when it comes to being in a tax haven is corporation tax. It still has to register and pay VAT in every country it sells to (although the majority of countries set a minimum threshold after which VAT needs to be collected).

What is illegal is stating prices exclusive of VAT. At least in the European Union, prices must be stated including VAT. Only products and services that are clearly meant for commercial use are permitted to be stated as a net value. This certainly applies to Italy and the Netherlands, so Indie Gala and Blink Bundle have already broken the law in that regard.
Posted February 18, 2014
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chezybezy: whats a Widget in terms of HB sale item? (obviously i know what it is in normal terms but my brain no workey with that term in this context :p)
An example of a widget
Posted February 18, 2014
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chezybezy: whats a Widget in terms of HB sale item?
A method by which a developer can sale the game through his own website instead of the Humble Store.
Posted February 18, 2014
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Grargar: <snip>
and
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JMich: A method by which a developer can sale the game through his own website instead of the Humble Store.
oh! enlightenment! Thankyou :)
Posted February 18, 2014
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paul1290: Now correct me if I'm wrong, and somebody else here probably knows more about this than I do, but GOG is in a slightly better position to avoid that shaky "justification" because they don't have to pay some of those taxes, or at least they don't have to pay as much. This is partly because GOG operates out of Cyprus.
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jamyskis: The only things that GOG benefits from when it comes to being in a tax haven is corporation tax. It still has to register and pay VAT in every country it sells to (although the majority of countries set a minimum threshold after which VAT needs to be collected).

What is illegal is stating prices exclusive of VAT. At least in the European Union, prices must be stated including VAT. Only products and services that are clearly meant for commercial use are permitted to be stated as a net value. This certainly applies to Italy and the Netherlands, so Indie Gala and Blink Bundle have already broken the law in that regard.
Indiegala includes VAT: when you purchase a bundle you receive a mail where VAT is stated.
Posted February 18, 2014
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jamyskis: The only things that GOG benefits from when it comes to being in a tax haven is corporation tax. It still has to register and pay VAT in every country it sells to (although the majority of countries set a minimum threshold after which VAT needs to be collected).

What is illegal is stating prices exclusive of VAT. At least in the European Union, prices must be stated including VAT. Only products and services that are clearly meant for commercial use are permitted to be stated as a net value. This certainly applies to Italy and the Netherlands, so Indie Gala and Blink Bundle have already broken the law in that regard.
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Punished_Snake: Indiegala includes VAT: when you purchase a bundle you receive a mail where VAT is stated.
That's what jamyskis meant; if it's handled this way, it's illegal according to him because they'd need to state VAT before the purchase, not after.
Posted February 18, 2014
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Punished_Snake: Indiegala includes VAT: when you purchase a bundle you receive a mail where VAT is stated.
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Leroux: That's what jamyskis meant; if it's handled this way, it's illegal according to him because they'd need to state VAT before the purchase, not after.
Lol yes, you are right, I haven't read properly :P
Posted February 18, 2014
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paul1290: GOG's situation isn't exactly the same as other stores.

One of the "justifications" for regional pricing is to eliminate the need to deal with taxes on a case by cases. This isn't always 100% correct and I don't agree with it either, but that's sort of the questionable way publishers "explain" this.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, and somebody else here probably knows more about this than I do, but GOG is in a slightly better position to avoid that shaky "justification" because they don't have to pay some of those taxes, or at least they don't have to pay as much. This is partly because GOG operates out of Cyprus.

Now if you wanted to be really mean and pedantic about it, what GOG does is what some people like to call "tax avoidance".
Technically it's not illegal, but apparently it is frowned upon by some groups.
I wonder if that's still true actually, in the last decade the standard VAT rate has gone up considerably in Cyprus. However, the 0% tax rate (Zero Rate) exemption seems to be for these below among other things:

* Exports
* Commissions received from abroad for
exportation of goods

Strictly speaking, isn't that what GOG is doing? That would mean they pay no VAT at all.
Post edited February 18, 2014 by Pheace
Posted February 18, 2014
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Punished_Snake: Indiegala includes VAT: when you purchase a bundle you receive a mail where VAT is stated.
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Leroux: That's what jamyskis meant; if it's handled this way, it's illegal according to him because they'd need to state VAT before the purchase, not after.
No. I don't know Indiegala, but end users don't need to know the VAT before purchasing because it is part of the final price already shown to them before purchase, at least in the European Union.
Posted February 18, 2014
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Leroux: That's what jamyskis meant; if it's handled this way, it's illegal according to him because they'd need to state VAT before the purchase, not after.
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The-Business: No. I don't know Indiegala, but end users don't need to know the VAT before purchasing because it is part of the final price already shown to them before purchase, at least in the European Union.
I was just pointing to what jamyskis said, personally I can't claim to know these things (that's why I wrote "according to him"). I think there was another bundle though where the prices shown did not include VAT and VAT was added to it later on, maybe Bundle Bandits or something like that? Would that be legal, too?
Post edited February 18, 2014 by Leroux
Posted February 18, 2014
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Punished_Snake: why I must pay so much for a game? Why countries like Russia pay a game a lot less then us?
Earn less pay less?
I guess... :)

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Novotnus: Good time for GOG to start thinking about Linux support.
Wine wrappers!
Why not?
Post edited February 18, 2014 by vicklemos
Posted February 18, 2014
This REALLY pisses me off! (cit. Duke Nukem)
I would understand a little difference in price due to variable VAT (for example, here in Italy is as "little" as 22% of the total price) to compensate potential losses, but I'm sure it will become shamelessly outrageous as Steam, where 1€ =1$, with -as others already stated- a direct increase in price of nearly the 35%.
Damn, it seem that today every shop is just becoming a Steam key vending machine! It has been really sad to watch the downfall of Humble: it was once a great distribution site, but now I really see no reason to buy from it again.

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Punished_Snake: You have around 350 € left, and you need to buy food, pay bills (and here there are TONS: excluding gas, power energy, water and telephone, we have a lot of taxes you must pay).
Don't tell me about bills! Let's make the Italian situation public: do you know how much a small business enterprise (and with small I mean boss+2/10 workers) has to pay in taxes every year in my country? I'll tell you: more or less from 45 to 65% of earnings, not counting the other bills, like rents on warehouses. Some official reports say that a few people touched 72%. And to add insult to injury, our government doesn't care if your customer pays: as long as there is an invoice, you must pay the taxes, no matter if you still didn't see a cent. So many are forced to shut down, drowned in debts because they are forced to pay VAT on something they don't even own. I don't know if this is the same in the rest of the world, but here it hurts pretty bad.
Posted February 18, 2014
Well that sucks.
Posted February 18, 2014
Well, HB certainly isnt the only place selling games and bundles at "affordable prices"...so if they want to shoot themselves into knee, its really their choice. Plenty of other sites willing to plug that cap.

To my eyes this doesnt affect GOG's standing in anyway as GOG and HB havent really ever competed against each other for quite some time now.
Posted February 18, 2014
Another one bytes the dust... At least there still is Amazon for now. Too bad that not everything is available on it and some stuff is region locked.
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)HumbleBundle Store introduces regional pricing option(92 posts)(92 posts)
(92 posts)