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Darling_Jimmy: Indeed the amount of misunderstanding is puzzling. His or her comments are very clear.
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AndrewC: Yes, but his the effects he's talking about can't be quantified, as you'll never know the "on edge" cases that will drop on either side of the fence. So what I'm proposing is quantifying the near/immediate effects of this bundle.

You're not ok with that? Great, no problem, then propose a different way to measure/quantify the effect so that I can bet on the outcome.
You were proposing for me to bet against something happening that I was expecting to happen. Why in the world would I ever do that? As far as quantifying goes, I don't know if that is possible in this case. But if anyone could do it, I wouldn't mind a bet at all.
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Kristian: As far as quantifying goes, I don't know if that is possible in this case.
So basically you state something without having any real evidence of it being possible? Because that's what quantifying this would achieve.
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Kristian: As far as quantifying goes, I don't know if that is possible in this case.
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AndrewC: So basically you state something without having any real evidence of it being possible? Because that's what quantifying this would achieve.
Just because the effect may not be easily quantifiable doesn't mean it isn't quantifiable and even if isn't quantifiable doesn't mean it isn't there. Some things you can know by logical deduction.
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AndrewC: Yes, but his the effects he's talking about can't be quantified, as you'll never know the "on edge" cases that will drop on either side of the fence. So what I'm proposing is quantifying the near/immediate effects of this bundle.

You're not ok with that? Great, no problem, then propose a different way to measure/quantify the effect so that I can bet on the outcome.
If you understand the comments are unverifiable, why bother attempting to verify them? Grains of salt.
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Kristian: even if isn't quantifiable doesn't mean it isn't there.
Can you please give me an example of this? I'm honest to God trying to find something that applies to that statement but can't find anything and I'm curious.
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Kristian: even if isn't quantifiable doesn't mean it isn't there.
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AndrewC: Can you please give me an example of this? I'm honest to God trying to find something that applies to that statement but can't find anything and I'm curious.
Well, in this thread "bullshit" comes to mind.
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SimonG: GG itself has DRM in their downloader. You can bypass it, but it still uses DRM in every download.
That's is a silly comment even by your standards; in this case you could say it's the same for GoG because you have to be connected to download games. And as mentioned earlier, Witcher 2, while being DRM-free, had region restriction.
Post edited December 02, 2012 by Gersen
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Kristian: even if isn't quantifiable doesn't mean it isn't there.
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AndrewC: Can you please give me an example of this? I'm honest to God trying to find something that applies to that statement but can't find anything and I'm curious.
hmm... if something produces an effect, then that effect is measurable. If it is not, then no effect have taken place. At least that's what I have learned, and believes.
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SimonG: GG itself has DRM in their downloader. You can bypass it, but it still uses DRM in every download.
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Gersen: That's is a silly comment even by your standards; in this case you could say it's the same for GoG because you have to be connected to download games. And as mentioned earlier, Witcher 2, while being DRM-free, had region restriction.
And this is offset by in store credit.

Again. Neither GG nor GOG are selling games at a significantly cheaper price range in other regions.

What is stopping a Russian GOGer from gifting me Black Ops II for 30$? Regional restrictions.
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SimonG: GG itself has DRM in their downloader. You can bypass it, but it still uses DRM in every download.
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Gersen: That's is a silly comment even by your standards
No, it's just badly worded, because it's not just about the download but also about the installation. GG doesn't officially allow you to install the games without using their online downloader, and that's more or less the same as online activation and quite different from downloading DRM-free installers from GOG (which you can freely use to install the game on any PC not connected to the internet).
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SimonG: What is stopping a Russian GOGer from gifting me Black Ops II for 30$? Regional restrictions.
And once again region restriction doesn't have to have anything with DRM, if you do regional restriction at the gifting or download level; by only allowing to gift to / download in the same "region" you achieve exactly the same goal even if the game doesn't have DRMs.

If somebody uses a VPN to receive/download a gift nothing prevents them from starting the game using said VPN.
Post edited December 02, 2012 by Gersen
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Leroux: No, it's just badly worded, because it's not just about the download but also about the installation. GG doesn't officially allow you to install the games without using their online downloader, and that's more or less the same as online activation and quite different from downloading DRM-free installers from GOG (which you can freely use to install the game on any PC not connected to the internet).
That is the point. For regional restrictions to work, either the downloader or the game itself has to check if you are in said region. If GG would ever add this, I would bet good money that their easy exploit would vanish overnight.
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Gersen: And once again region restriction doesn't have to have anything with DRM, if you do regional restriction at the gifting or download level; by only allowing to gift to / download in the same "region" you achieve exactly the same goal even if the game doesn't have DRMs.

If somebody uses a VPN to receive/download a gift nothing prevents you from starting the game using said VPN.
And the best way to avoid that is to use a system combining your game with an account tied to your proper region. Like Steam. Of course you can use a VPN every-time to launch a game. But it is exactly that kind of inconvenience that will deter enough buyers.

And if that doesn't work, you can make a system like Steam even more restrictive. Like having to wait an hour after a region change to start a game. With proper DRM you have the tools. Without DRM you are at the mercy of the goodwill of gamers. And even a cursory glance at the classified thread will show you that this won't work.
Post edited December 02, 2012 by SimonG
Dude, SimonG, read what you are saying:
And if that doesn't work, you can make a system like Steam even more restrictive. Like having to wait an hour after a region change to start a game. With proper DRM you have the tools. Without DRM you are at the mercy of the goodwill of gamers.
We are gamers. For us restrictions are NEVER good.
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Kristian: We are gamers. For us restrictions are NEVER good.
I don't care that much about gamers. I care about developers and publishers. You want more freedom? Earn it.
Post edited December 02, 2012 by SimonG
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Kristian: Dude, SimonG, read what you are saying:
And if that doesn't work, you can make a system like Steam even more restrictive. Like having to wait an hour after a region change to start a game. With proper DRM you have the tools. Without DRM you are at the mercy of the goodwill of gamers.
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Kristian: We are gamers. For us restrictions are NEVER good.
The use of the pronoun we can be quite dangerous... we are gamers, we do not care about DRM (as this bundle and the amount of Steam users shows, not to mention Origin, Uplay etc...)
Post edited December 02, 2012 by amok