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General discussion (archive)Humble THQ Bundle is live!(1555 posts)(1555 posts)
(1555 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted December 01, 2012
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mondo84: This is the thread that doesn't end.
Well it goes on and on my friend.
Some people starting posting not knowing what it was,
and they'll continue posting forever just because...
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amok: they want to write poetry without a cause?
Art thou not aware of the song that never ends?
Posted December 01, 2012
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timppu: By the way, I always meant to ask you. As far as I've understood, you have profiled yourself as a person who is at the same time pro-DRM (as can be seen in this long thread many times), and pro-piracy (last time I saw you defending piracy due to preservation of games).

So how does that work, logically?
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SimonG: Very easy. Firstly, I'm not pro-DRM. What many anti-DRM people don't seem to grasp is that this is not a black and white issue. DRM has many shapes and colours. But if people need that kind of thinking, I'm rather pro-DRM than anti-DRM. Because I really don't like extremists.

A good DRM solution has a lot of benefits. For me, most importantly, it opens up lower income markets. You can easily make something like Steam for Russian and Brazilian income averages without much problems. You can't do that with GOG. Because GOG has the unfair pricing for every person in the world. Unfair, because 10$ is a lot different in Germany than in Russia. (A big Starbucks coffee at a German railway station nearly costs 10$) I could write more, but to be honest, I really don't care enough about your opinion.

Secondly, I am not pro-piracy. I support a special kind of piracy. The kind of piracy where poor people can get games for free. Games are a cultural issue that should be enjoyed by everybody regardless of income. And I pay so much on games, I can support at least a few pirates with that. (also, piracy =/= what I get for my money). Because all the service associated with a game should only be available for people who pay. People that don't have money have usually time, so they can tinker themselves. And the community is actually very helpful with that. I rather go to a person I paid, but each his own.

Apart from that, there are more benefits from piracy, than there are downsides. Just to name one.

Many big, successful software companies have used piracy as a marketing tool (Microsoft and Valve, to name the two biggest). They would never officially say so, but the if you dig a bit deeper, you can see a lot of stuff that falls together just a bit too good.

Again, I could write more. But I really don't care. You probably just throw in another personal insult, take something out of context or tell us how much you like to buy GOG games and how everybody else is a freeloader or whatnot.


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keeveek: Also, with that kind of DRM, every time Blizzard adds new content to the game, pirated version will be always "retarded". Just like any MMO with pirated servers - you may play it, but what's the point?
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SimonG: Diablo 3 is a MMO, at least in my book.
Holy crap, SimonG, Judgment Day is near when lawyers begin to speak the truth!!! No, just kidding
:-) But that was a very inspiring speech you gave there and I fully support what you said. This is complicated stuff and not black and white like most people want to make it out to be. So just wanted the let you know that I fully agree with you on this topic - +1 to you, mate!
Post edited December 01, 2012 by jepsen1977
Posted December 01, 2012
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SimonG: A good DRM solution has a lot of benefits. For me, most importantly, it opens up lower income markets. You can easily make something like Steam for Russian and Brazilian income averages without much problems.
This has absolutely nothing to do with DRM but with different region pricing, GG does that even for its DRM-free games.
Posted December 01, 2012
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timppu: By the way, I always meant to ask you. As far as I've understood, you have profiled yourself as a person who is at the same time pro-DRM (as can be seen in this long thread many times), and pro-piracy (last time I saw you defending piracy due to preservation of games).

So how does that work, logically?
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SimonG: Very easy. Firstly, I'm not pro-DRM.
Of course not, you are just against games not having DRM, right?

http://www.gog.com/forum/general/humble_thq_bundle_is_live/post836

Just one example there.

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SimonG: What many anti-DRM people don't seem to grasp is that this is not a black and white issue. DRM has many shapes and colours.
And that's why I was asking a clarification, what to you is "good DRM", since at the same time you see many benefits in piracy. I presume you don't at least want DRM to be efficient, ie. uncrackable? Because then piracy wouldn't be possible, right?

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SimonG: A good DRM solution has a lot of benefits. For me, most importantly, it opens up lower income markets. You can easily make something like Steam for Russian and Brazilian income averages without much problems.
Sorry to interrupt you right there, but now you talk about regional pricing, not DRM. Apparently you got them mixed up. DRM isn't necessarily needed for regional pricing, as Witcher 2 on GOG proved. I'm pretty sure DRM-free digital music is also sold all the time all over the world with regional pricing.

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SimonG: Secondly, I am not pro-piracy. I support a special kind of piracy. The kind of piracy where poor people can get games for free.
...
Apart from that, there are more benefits from piracy, than there are downsides.
Those, and I also remember you recently mentioning game preservation as reason to consider piracy a good thing, in some discussion where you lectured jamyskis about the differences, or lack thereof, of abandonware and piracy. It seemed a very black and white issue to you, by the way. :)

So how can those alleged benefits of piracy be enjoyed, if there is efficient, uncrackable DRM in place? Or what was the definition of "good DRM", again?

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jepsen1977: But that was a very inspiring speech you gave there and I fully support what you said. This is complicated stuff and not black and white like most people want to make it out to be. So just wanted the let you know that I fully agree with you on this topic - +1 to you, mate!
Frankly, since his post made no sense whatsoever and was still full of contradictions and silly mistakes like mixing up DRM and regional pricing, I think you are just generally showing support to him, without even reading what he wrote.

But whatever floats your boat.
Post edited December 01, 2012 by timppu
Posted December 01, 2012
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CaptainGyro: I'm curious. Have you actually re-read the thread and all that Kristian has said, where you can see the context of those quotes? Because as convinced as you are that I misrepresented him, I'm pretty confident that I didnt. I said he SUGGESTED ( meaning he implied as a possibility) that the oldstyle Humble Bundles would be very rare( NOT that they would stop appearing altogether) . Reading through the thread, I have no idea how anybody could miss it.Those quotes were just a small sample. The only reason I didn't quote more posts or the actual convos is because it would be a huge pain in the ass, and it would also result in a clusterfuck of a post. I honestly think you should re-read the thread.
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SirPrimalform: Sorry, but at 800 posts there is no way I'm rereading the thread.
So what are you saying, the reason it doesn't look like he's saying what you say he's saying is because the quotes aren't in context? Quote more of a smaller number of posts then.

Of course I'm not going back to check your quotes for you. Your quotes, to me, didn't prove the point you were trying to make and if you think re-reading the whole thread would change my mind then evidently you did a bad job of quoting.

Anyway, the burden of proof is on you. I said that those quotes in no way demonstrate him saying what you claim. According to those quotes, he didn't say it. Maybe he said it in the thread somewhere, and if he did then it's up to you to quote that.
Alright. So in other words, you have a severely lower opinion of me because I misrepresented him, though you don't even know if I misrepresented him, and you don't want to re-check. Awesome.I think those quotes showed plenty of proof, and Kristain would know what I was talking about. You may not have, but I wasn't responding directly to you, was I?( Though personally I STILL don't understand how you can't see it even in those isolated quotes) Besides, I already explained why I didn't quote the whole convos, the post would result in a convoluted mess and it would be time consuming, In the future please stop replying to me if you aren't even reading the posts properly. It gets a little irritating having to constantly re-explain everything to a single person who is to lazy to actually read the thread correctly. That's why I gave you a "cocky dismissal" in the first place.
Have fun rashly lowering your opinion of people , even though it's your poor reading skills that are the main part of the problem. Good luck.
Post edited December 01, 2012 by CaptainGyro
Posted December 01, 2012
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etna87: Yes, this is basically about the censorship of steam. And because you mentioned something like that: There are different types of censorship: you can buy most games uncut in retail, you just can't advertise them. There is a second type which cannot be sold in retail, but I don't think it applies to Saint's Row. Steam simply does not have a proper age verification system.
Anyway, I know about this problem of steam, and it annoys me - but I still expected that the Humble Bundle would supply international keys. I got the Commandos games on steam from an Indiegala bundle, and those cannot be bought on German steam. I also saw no indication that Humble Bundle determines my location now and will provide a German steam key, so I definitely hold it against them that they did not notify me about this fact before the purchase (this last part is what annoys me about the Humble Bundle, not the censorship itself).
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SimonG: It's actually a rather complicated legal issue going far beyond any perceived censorship.

Saint's Row III (int) and Saint's Row III (ger) are from a legal (and Steams) standpoint. Two completely different games. Saints Row III (int) has never been put before a German regulatory body, which opens up a huge can of worms far beyond your USK 18 rating. Especially with a game already so controversial. Therefore the HB guys simply cannot sell this game to Germans.

That other bundles ignore that is the problem of the other bundles. They are doing something illegal. The HB are obviously trying to avoid and shadyness, therefore they are in compliance with the law.

The problem is German law and THQ. Not Steam, not the HB guys. If THQ would have bother to at least get a SPIO/JK on the int version of SR III, that would be a different issue. But they didn't. Which makes this game even more problematic than any USK 18 game.
I must admit that I don't really care about the details in this case. I just expect some kind of clarification about the version before the purchase. Anyway, I'll remember not to have overly optimistic expectations in the future, and everything will be fine.
Posted December 01, 2012
Speaking about german censorship and law : Dead Island - Riptide was banned .
Posted December 01, 2012
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CaptainGyro: Alright. So in other words, you have a severely lower opinion of me because I misrepresented him, though you don't even know if I misrepresented him, and you don't want to re-check. Awesome.
You misrepresented him according to your own quotes. Whether you're wrong about him or your quotes are wrong, something is still wrong.

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CaptainGyro: In the future please stop replying to me if you aren't even reading the posts properly. It gets a little irritating having to constantly re-explain everything to a single person who is to lazy to actually read the thread correctly. That's why I gave you a "cocky dismissal" in the first place
I read your post, with the quotes you made. The whole point of the quotes is that your post should be self contained. All I'm saying is that what you accuse him of is not properly represented in those quotes. Either he didn't do it or you quoted the wrong bits and you expect me to go and re-read everything he said? You're the one asserting that he said something.
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CaptainGyro: Have fun rashly lowering your opinion of people , even though it's your poor reading skills that are a large part of the problem. Good luck.
Haha, "Post edited now by CaptainGyro". You came back over half an hour later to add that?
Also, you make it sound like I have some kind of ranking system. I didn't say I have lowered my opinion of you, I said you have lowered my opinion of you. It's not a deliberate action on my part.
Post edited December 01, 2012 by SirPrimalform
Posted December 01, 2012
Yes I re-edited. What's your point? I re-edit all the time when I have to stop posting and do something for a few moments. So?

I also had to edit this post because I screwed up the quote hahaha! Wait...that's not even funny

Edit oh burn somehow hahahahah- Also you're thing about ME lowering your opinion of me is still idiotic, considering that I didn't even misrepresent him. So yes it is your reading skills that are the problem
Post edited December 01, 2012 by CaptainGyro
Posted December 01, 2012
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CaptainGyro: Yes I re-edited. What's your point? I re-edit all the time when I have to stop posting and do something for a few moments. So?

I also had to edit this post because I screwed up the quote hahaha! Wait...that's not even funny

Edit oh burn somehow hahahahah- Also you're thing about ME lowering your opinion of me is still idiotic, considering that I didn't even misrepresent him. So yes it is your reading skills that are the problem
I like how you mainly address my afterthought and respond to the main body of my post with:
considering that I didn't even misrepresent him. So yes it is your reading skills that are the problem
Well bravo. I did in fact also present the option that maybe he did say that and your quotes just don't do a good job of supporting it. You would have noticed that if your reading skills weren't such a problem. Burn!
Since you've managed to reduce the argument to "well you can't read!" - "no, you can't read!", I'm out.
Posted December 01, 2012
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SimonG: The problem is German law and THQ. Not Steam, not the HB guys. If THQ would have bother to at least get a SPIO/JK on the int version of SR III, that would be a different issue. But they didn't. Which makes this game even more problematic than any USK 18 game.
SPIO/JK is just am movie thing. SPIO means "Spitzenorganisation der Filmwirtschaft e.V." and the SPIO/JK "Rating" just means the movie is not against criminal law. The problem with Saints Row 3 is the "B" listing from the BPjM in Germany. There is no legal way to offer "B" listet content via Internet in Germany.
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ne_zavarj: Speaking about german censorship and law : Dead Island - Riptide was banned .
No. Not in Germany.
Post edited December 01, 2012 by Rincewind81
Posted December 01, 2012
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timppu: snip
What part of "I don't care what you have to say" did you not get? I really don't know if you are just trolling, but I don't really care. Just ignore me from now on, as I do with you.

Probably my fault for answering you in the first place.
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SimonG: The problem is German law and THQ. Not Steam, not the HB guys. If THQ would have bother to at least get a SPIO/JK on the int version of SR III, that would be a different issue. But they didn't. Which makes this game even more problematic than any USK 18 game.
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Rincewind81: SPIO/JK is just am movie thing. SPIO means "Spitzenorganisation der Filmwirtschaft e.V." and the SPIO/JK "Rating" just means the movie is not against criminal law. The problem with Saints Row 3 is the "B" listing from the BPjM in Germany. There is no legal way to offer "B" listet content via Internet in Germany.
I thought the SPIO/JK was used analogue for games? Heck, this is such a weird mess that I stopped complaining about it a long time ago. But I have seen what the state of Germany does to people when it is pissed off, I am not complaining if anyone is playing safe.

On a related note: Never build any kind of building without a permit. Never!
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etna87: I must admit that I don't really care about the details in this case. I just expect some kind of clarification about the version before the purchase. Anyway, I'll remember not to have overly optimistic expectations in the future, and everything will be fine.
Can't argue with that.
Post edited December 01, 2012 by SimonG
Posted December 01, 2012
The name of this thread should be changed to The Unpleasant Thread.
Posted December 01, 2012
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mondo84: I remember the average for HIB V was something like $8 or $9. This bundle is averaging about $6.
I think two factors are playing together with this.

Firstly, indies are the underdogs and underdogs are always more popular. THQ isn't Double Fine or even CDPR (not that I like them). They have no cloud to their name.

Secondly, everybody and his grandmother who is even remotely interested in any of those games already bought them. That is why I only paid ten bucks. I just wanted a Steam code for CoH.

Heck, I haven't even added Armageddon to my Steam account and I have at least two codes of that games alone. With Darksiders I think I get close to two digits. (slight hyperbole).
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Profanity: The name of this thread should be changed to The Unpleasant Thread.
I love this thread, I honestly do.
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Gersen: This has absolutely nothing to do with DRM but with different region pricing, GG does that even for its DRM-free games.
GG itself has DRM in their downloader. You can bypass it, but it still uses DRM in every download.

And AFAIK, they don't have special lower prices for Russia or Brazil.

The only way to enforce regional pricing is via DRM. I am the first to sign anything that would bring the world a PWYW and DRM free for every game. But that is just a fantasy, as people are to greedy to pay what is their due.
Post edited December 01, 2012 by SimonG
Posted December 01, 2012
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jepsen1977: Holy crap, SimonG, Judgment Day is near when lawyers begin to speak the truth!!! No, just kidding
They always speak the truth. Sometimes, however, reality shifts around them. Something with quarks, from what I heard.

And this is so becoming my new drunk thread!
Post edited December 01, 2012 by SimonG
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)Humble THQ Bundle is live!(1555 posts)(1555 posts)
(1555 posts)