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General discussion (archive)Humble THQ Bundle is live!(1555 posts)(1555 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted November 30, 2012
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jamyskis: The fact remains though that either PC gamers for the most part lack the balls to stand up for their rights out of fear of the PC gaming market dying, or that the impact of DRM is being downplayed.
or that the majority just don't care?
Posted November 30, 2012
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Antaniserse: ... and since they deal only in Steam keys, and could not care less about the drm-free version, this already contradicts your "2X" numbers
How so? The HIB only gives out keys. If people are buying up the bundle en masse for cheap for the purpose of getting more expensive games, how does that contradict anything?
Post edited November 30, 2012 by jamyskis
Posted November 30, 2012
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SimonG: Because the Humble Bundle was about PWYW and giving a part to charity. That were there cores, that is what was able in every bundle so far.

The perceived fall from DRM free simply isn't. The bitching of people combined with the fact that this bundle will be the most successful does only marginalize any presumed DRM free movement even further.
Well even the guy who runs it said previously indie and DRM free were principles of the site, so gonna have to disagree with your whole premise.

I agree on the latter part though, and said as much myself way back on page 2 or 3. The vast majority do not care about DRM. The vast majority don't care about a lot of things they should care about, however.
Post edited November 30, 2012 by StingingVelvet
Posted November 30, 2012
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StingingVelvet: The vast majority don't care about a lot of things they should care about, however.
THIS.
Posted November 30, 2012
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keeveek: Principles over money? I thought you were older than me.
Normally, I'd say you are right.

But this is HIB. They shit money, they don't need THQ, they just need to release Humble Indie Bundle 7 to shit money again.
Posted November 30, 2012
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Antaniserse: ... and since they deal only in Steam keys, and could not care less about the drm-free version, this already contradicts your "2X" numbers
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jamyskis: How so? The HIB only gives out keys.
You said that a drm-free version would have doubled the sales, and also that a big part of the current sales is from steamgift/trade users

See the contradiction? if your second statement is true, then the first one can't be accurate: anyone buying to make a giveaway/trade there needs the steam key and nothing else, so there won't be increased sales from those users anyway, drm-free option or not... they already got what they need.
Post edited November 30, 2012 by Antaniserse
Posted November 30, 2012
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Antaniserse: See the contradiction? if your second statement is true, then the first one can't be accurate: anyone buying to make a giveaway/trade there needs the steam key and nothing else, so there won't be increased sales from those users anyway, drm-free option or not... they already got what they need.
No, there is no contradiction. If there were DRM-free AND Steam versions, as has been common practice for the Humble Bundles (and, IMHO, is the best distribution practice), then the key farmers would still have been farming the keys, but there would have been the extra revenue from DRM-free sales.

The key farming is the result of the perceived commercial value of the games, nothing to do with DRM. It was a serious problem back in the early days of the HIB, but weakened off somewhat as people realised the keys were worth next to nothing. Now it's picked up again because of the games being sold.
Post edited November 30, 2012 by jamyskis
Posted November 30, 2012
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StingingVelvet: I agree on the latter part though, and said as much myself way back on page 2 or 3. The vast majority do not care about DRM. The vast majority don't care about a lot of things they should care about, however.
If you ask the average gamer today if he wants the Steam package or DRM free, he will go Steam, even if given the choice. Steam as a service has become so important to many, that the DRM free aspect has become secondary. DRM free has no benefits to the average gamer. A game needs an online activation? Who on earth does not at least have simple internet connection. If you don't have internet, you are no longer part of the market (which is the least of the problems if you don't have internet. Because in this day and age, internet is vital). I don't see people complaining that the HB doesn't run on Win 95....

Most of the arguments of the DRM free movements are doom and gloom predictions on how we all won't be able to play our games again. So what? Every decision in life is a weighting up of risks and benefits. I drive a bicycle to work. A lot more dangerous than taking the bus. But the benefit outweigh the costs.

Steam is like a bank for me. I'm not having all my money laying around in cash. Same with my games. I pay Steam (and to an extent also GOG) to cater my games. And both do a good job at it.

The idea that Steam users are just idiots who don't understand their rights is ridiculous. On this forum I have learned that it is more the DRM free guys who need to make up arguments against Steam have a very liberal understanding of the law.

Many people, me included, went to Steam because of Steam, not because they weren't offered a choice.
Posted November 30, 2012
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SimonG: If you ask the average gamer today if he wants the Steam package or DRM free, he will go Steam, even if given the choice. Steam as a service has become so important to many, that the DRM free aspect has become secondary. DRM free has no benefits to the average gamer. A game needs an online activation? Who on earth does not at least have simple internet connection. If you don't have internet, you are no longer part of the market (which is the least of the problems if you don't have internet. Because in this day and age, internet is vital). I don't see people complaining that the HB doesn't run on Win 95....
I'm not sure what planet you're living on, but no 'average gamer' that I've ever encountered or know actually praises Steam.

More or less everyone I know sees it either fairly ambivalently, as a 'necessary evil' or hates it. I know just one person who praises Steam, and he is truly a PC extremist that denounces anyone who plays on consoles as retards and is a truly unpleasant person indeed (but I have to work with him, unfortunately).
Posted November 30, 2012
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SimonG: If you ask the average gamer today if he wants the Steam package or DRM free, he will go Steam, even if given the choice. Steam as a service has become so important to many, that the DRM free aspect has become secondary. DRM free has no benefits to the average gamer. A game needs an online activation? Who on earth does not at least have simple internet connection. If you don't have internet, you are no longer part of the market (which is the least of the problems if you don't have internet. Because in this day and age, internet is vital). I don't see people complaining that the HB doesn't run on Win 95....

Most of the arguments of the DRM free movements are doom and gloom predictions on how we all won't be able to play our games again. So what? Every decision in life is a weighting up of risks and benefits. I drive a bicycle to work. A lot more dangerous than taking the bus. But the benefit outweigh the costs.

Steam is like a bank for me. I'm not having all my money laying around in cash. Same with my games. I pay Steam (and to an extent also GOG) to cater my games. And both do a good job at it.
You're not telling me anything I don't know already, not sure what the point of this rant is. Again, I said the same damn thing myself 10 pages ago.

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SimonG: The idea that Steam users are just idiots who don't understand their rights is ridiculous. On this forum I have learned that it is more the DRM free guys who need to make up arguments against Steam have a very liberal understanding of the law.

Many people, me included, went to Steam because of Steam, not because they weren't offered a choice.
There's nothing wrong with that, but DRM has real downsides (the most important to me being game preservation) that cannot be denied just because you enjoy the upsides. It would be relatively simple for them to offer DRM free versions without those features for those who want them. Several Steamworks games like Velvet Assassin, Rogue Warrior and Dark Messiah have done this already.

They don't because why bother, but I am saying they should bother because games are art and worth respecting long-term.

The majority accepting a thing has very little relevance to the morality and value of the thing.
Posted November 30, 2012
Oh how far the mighty has fallen! :-( This is dark day for once noble Humble Bundle that has now sold it's core values and it's very soul for blood money from entertainment industry giants. This is not humble, nor indie, nor cross platform and worst of all, not DRM free (and worst DRM of them all, steamcrapware). First free I could perhaps stomach in excange of seeing some major titles released from the shackles of DRM/Steamshitworks to someday see bright DRM-free future but no, you decided to throw all the your core values away just for money. A sad sad day for all.

I really hope everyone who bought this at least put 100% to charity (neither THQ nor 'humble' deserve any of it anyway.
Post edited November 30, 2012 by Petrell
Posted November 30, 2012
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jamyskis: I'm not sure what planet you're living on, but no 'average gamer' that I've ever encountered or know actually praises Steam.
Are we to take from this you have a small or limited social circle? There's plenty of people out there who are perfectly happy with what Steam offers them. And yes, they're generally in the same group that don't let things like it not being 'DRM-free' bother them. They just get their game and play it, their game stays patched and they're happy. It's that simple.
Post edited November 30, 2012 by Pheace
Posted November 30, 2012
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Pheace: Are we to take from this you have a small or limited social circle?
No.
Posted November 30, 2012
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Pheace: Are we to take from this you have a small or limited social circle?
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jamyskis: No.
Then an alien from Mars, maybe?
Posted November 30, 2012
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StingingVelvet: They don't because why bother, but I am saying they should bother because games are art and worth respecting long-term.
You are saying this like it would be given that any DRM'd game won't be able to run in the future. That is just wrong. GOG itself is often selling cracked versions of games. As long as DRM is not integral to the game itself, it does not stand in the way of gaming.

MMO come to thing. And Diablo 3. But every game that has a cracked version around (and Steam is far more easy to crack than most DRMs of the last ten years).

And the very fact that Steam so far, hasn't removed a single game from their servers, makes them better at gaming preservation than most libraries do with books.
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)Humble THQ Bundle is live!(1555 posts)(1555 posts)
(1555 posts)