The issue of the version has nothing to do with separate keys. The THQ version for that particular game was a worse deal for Germans because of the version sold, not because it was or wasn't included in separate keys.

I suppose anyone can play devil's advocate on any issue, but the bottom line is no long term valid argument can be made that consumers are better off with single keys for multiple game purchases than they are with separate ones, unless they choose a single key by choice (such as they wish to claim 10 games at once without having to type in separate keys). But that could be accomplished with separate keys being the norm and one key being requested, the most advantageous outcome for consumers at large.

None of this discussion matters though, as I was just venting, AGAIN, at the lack of complete awareness of consumers as to their power. The same is true for workers, and citizen/voters and it isn't just a USA fault. Something has happened in the human psyche where we've all become conditioned to mostly just accepting whatever we're told.

But I have a right, and IMO a duty, to bitch about it and point it out, so I'll continue doing so, despite the hate. Or devil's advocates.

ADDED: BTW, you're very very smart regarding techie stuff and have helped me so often in the past, could you maybe tell me why every time I've turned off my computer over the past three days I keep getting the message that Windows is updating, and every time it is 4 updates??? I just looked on the Update history and it indicates the updates are failing, so I guess that's why they keep trying to update, but I have no clue why they're failing.

I agree with preferring separate keys; but ultimately the issue here is the cost per game and overall deal. If I can get 3 promising games for cheap then having to also add 2 undesirable games to my Steam account is a relatively small inconvenience for the great price on my preferred item(s). For example, it's hard to imagine many consumers would be motivated enough to boycot $1 Saint's Row 3 because they would also be forced to receive extar content Saint's Row 2 and Risen in the same deal. A lot of time bundle games that are "meh" games are worth exploring by virtue of their price. Also, it makes sense Humble BUNDLE would sell only bundled products (hence all on one key) because that is the scope of their offering, if you want X game you have to accept X, Y, AND Z games.

I disagree, ultimately the issue here is consumer power. You could get the promising games for cheap AND have separate keys, if that's what consumers demand. Accepting less means getting less.

I'm curious: Which options do seperate keys give me, except for the one that I'm not supposed to do (which is splitting the bundle and give away the keys)?

and makes it is easier for key re-sellers... .

I understand your point of view and see the logic; as a tangent - the bundles already seem insanely cheap to the point of being nearly unfair to the developer (90%+ off asking price). Consumers do have power, but to me bundles are already an example of consumer power being nearly exploited - consumers will purchase massive amounts of a game if thrown into a dirt cheap bundle. I don't believe the developers intended to X3 would net them less than $1 (assuming consumer pruchase at a minimal price) but have stooped to that to satisfy customer power and compell sales. Does consumer power go "too far" in then refusing to buy those dirt cheap games despite the insane price because they are available only in a package?

I think the real issue is that Steam makes it difficult to remove unwanted items from accounts and that it limits trading. Regarding trading, Humble already seems fairly generous with gift options given the price.

never mind. I have been here before...

It has to do with how keys are redeemed on Steam. There are 2 applications in the Steam registry, one of which cannot be activated from Germany (the retail key). The other has no limits on where it can be activated. If the cut key was given, anyone could redeem it, but it would be the censored version. If the uncut was given (like the THQ case). The Deep Silver bypassed it exactly because it was bundled, since the bundled key didn't have any limitations.
The alternative would be for THQ (or Deep Silver) to either create a new steam entry that allows uncensored retail steam keys to be activated in Germany, or remove the activation lock. But that could possibly lead to legal issues with Germany (allowing minors access to restricted material).


Bundled products can benefit the consumer by presenting better offers than single items. Whether the offer is better or not is (obviously) something each consumer has to evaluate for him/herself though. I don't usually see bundles as access to 9 games, but as access to said bundle. So extra licenses to pass around are seen as bonuses, not as expectations. Same is true regardless of where I get something from.

Feel free to do so. And remember that the Devil's Advocate was someone who made sure that the God's Advocate did a proper job, and not a half-assed one. So don't hate the Devil's Advocate, but see if their points make sense, or if your are lacking somewhere. Though of course that assumes a competent Devil's Advocate.


First thing I'd suggest would be to manually try and update, and see if it manages to do so. Failing that, and seeing how restarting doesn't work, your best bet would be to look in the Event Viewer (type it in the start menu) in the System and/or Application logs and see if you have any Warnings or Errors concerning the updates. Feel free to PM with questions, though be aware of the time difference (normal GOG release time for me is at 13:00).

If you BUY something, you should be able to give it away to someone else. Accepting "I'm not supposed to give them away" is the problem. You don't have to accept that, but willingly do.

I wonder if I should by 1-2 copies of X3:TC, just in case some people missed it... It's one of the amazing time-killers :D

Eff staying on topic!

#rebel #badass

Reselling is different issue. Punish those that resell, not everyone.

Again, this is YOUR choice. You want to approve punishing everyone by not allowing them to regift because some resell? You do so by choice. And BTW if consumers decided to demand that, than reselling keys would be okay too. You can resell your house or car can't you??? Suppose a realtor offered three good properties at a good value, but part of the deal was you could never resell them. Why would anyone agree to that? Why do we with anything? Because we're "trained" that we're powerless, when in fact we actually have all the power.

the point being, thought, you buy a bundle, not individual games. Humble now allows you to give away seperate games, but it is still sold as 1 unit meant for 1 person per bundle. And I do not think that is fair, as you get a reduced price as it is sold as a bundle. Customer rights is one thing, customer abuse is another. It is a dangerous when one because to close to the other.

You talk about customer power, is this also not a power that can be abused?

(and there are only two absolutes in this world - Speed of light and Death :))
According you your argument - "If you BUY something, you should be able to give it away to someone else" should I then not also be able to sell it? SO then the resellers are in their right!

I see you are well trained. No worries, so are a vast majority.

Those of us that made a stink about GOG straying from their values got hammered for it, but look what happened. Those of us that hammered Daedalic games for initially charging for basically a patch (with some added content) got hammered, but look what happened, previous owners got the special edition for free.

There is no such thing as "consumer abuse" for the record. It's a stupid, bogus term. If our demands become "unrealistic" then there aren't any sellers willing to meet them. Demanding a separate key for each game is not unrealistic, as it used to be the norm, and still is in most cases.