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General discussion (archive)How Topware screwed an indie studio(87 posts)(87 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted November 20, 2014
Instead of paying a lawyer they should've paid an accountant (I don't know if they need really that for a small studio) and self publish the game. This way they only had to split the money with Valve. Pay Valve, pay taxes, pay publisher, pay lawyer, pay...
Posted November 20, 2014
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joriandrake: The problem is with Topware, not the games they published. Septerra Core was made by Valkyrie, others weren't made by Topware either, some games were also published by multiple companies and not just by Topware, your idea to "ban" Topware published games will not help anyone, rather it will hurt developers.

If you want to make a difference I rather suggest you to contact the developers of games yet to be released if you know the team plans to choose Topware as publisher, and express your reason for disagreeing with it, politely asking to change to an other company.
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P1na: The problem is we now have to consider the very real possibility that regardless of us buying the game, the dev will not see a cent. So even if a game is by, say, Valkyrie, I can't be sure my money isn't being syphoned away by Topware; therefore I won't buy. The way I see it, the dev is fucked anyway with a publisher like that, might as well get the publisher out of business.
Sadly Valkyrie is dead anyway, and the rights of Septerra Core get dusty in the hands of Zuxxes(sp?)/Topware as far I know, without making games in the franchise or allowing it to be sold to someone else. So as you see I am not supporting them, I just say directly contacting dev teams to share your opinion on this is more productive than silently boycotting a publisher and declaring it on GOG.
Posted November 20, 2014
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Cyraxpt: Well, i hate to be "that guy" but i doubt anything will happen, i don't see major (videogames) news websites picking this story
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Barefoot_Monkey: Well, it's on Gamasutra already.
He said "MAJOR" gaming sites. The story sounds like it sucks, but I won't give a vile site like Gamasutra clicks.
Posted November 20, 2014
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joriandrake: Sadly Valkyrie is dead anyway, and the rights of Septerra Core get dusty in the hands of Zuxxes(sp?)/Topware as far I know, without making games in the franchise or allowing it to be sold to someone else. So as you see I am not supporting them, I just say directly contacting dev teams to share your opinion on this is more productive than silently boycotting a publisher and declaring it on GOG.
Perhaps. But it's a lot easier and it still gives me a fuzzy feeling. In any case, I referred to current games rather than back catalog, lots of things going on with those. And it seems Topware is going belly up anyway, so nothing really matters.
Posted November 20, 2014
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Chickenator.108: On a slightly "good news" side: TopWare Interactive has filed for bankruptcy in September 2014 and is under supervision since 2014/09/22. (see this german lawyer blog: http://www.advoinfo.de/index.php/blognews/bloganews/31-topware-insolvent )
Not a very good development. Bosses pay themselves bonuses, company is left insolvent, and only the secured creditors get some payment.

If these, or any, scammed developers have any shot, its to stake their claim right now, in the bankruptcy proceedings and sell-off. How that works in DE is unclear to me, but it should be possible, hopefully not too prohibitively expensive. If those properties are sold off, even illegaly, the cost to litigate their restoration would probably be prohibitive.
Post edited November 20, 2014 by Spinorial
Posted November 20, 2014
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Barefoot_Monkey: Well, it's on Gamasutra already.
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LiquidOxygen80: He said "MAJOR" gaming sites. ....a vile site like Gamasutra clicks.
Care to elaborate?. I dont go there much myself but i subscribe to their daily musings and they seem to have closer contacts (at least from my view) with devs and related articles etc...? (lot of the *major* sites write imho rubbish much of the time.....
Post edited November 20, 2014 by Niggles
Posted November 20, 2014
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F1ach: I made a post on Ravens Cry (published by Topware) on Steam, hopefully people can pop over and add some support?

http://steamcommunity.com/app/281130/discussions/0/624075482725081987/
you do realise that boycotts like this hurts developers like Reality Pump much more than the publisher? You are also punishing Reality Pump here for Topware's actions.
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Barefoot_Monkey: Well, it's on Gamasutra already.
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LiquidOxygen80: He said "MAJOR" gaming sites. The story sounds like it sucks, but I won't give a vile site like Gamasutra clicks.
Gamasutra is a site for game DEVELOPERS. It is the perfect place to put up information like this, you know, for other developers to take in account as a warning?
Post edited November 20, 2014 by amok
Posted November 20, 2014
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F1ach: I made a post on Ravens Cry (published by Topware) on Steam, hopefully people can pop over and add some support?

http://steamcommunity.com/app/281130/discussions/0/624075482725081987/
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amok: you do realise that boycotts like this hurts developers like Reality Pump much more than the publisher? You are also punishing Reality Pump here for Topware's actions.
If you can suggest a better way for me to punish Topware other than not buying products they release, I will be happy to take it on board. :)
Posted November 20, 2014
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LiquidOxygen80: He said "MAJOR" gaming sites. ....a vile site like Gamasutra clicks.
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Niggles: Care to elaborate?. I dont go there much myself but i subscribe to their daily musings and they seem to have closer contacts (at least from my view) with devs and related articles etc...? (lot of the *major* sites write imho rubbish much of the time.....
They employ some rather nasty racist people like Leigh Alexander, that's enough for me to not give them my views or clicks.
Posted November 20, 2014
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amok: you do realise that boycotts like this hurts developers like Reality Pump much more than the publisher? You are also punishing Reality Pump here for Topware's actions.
Given that Topware has filed for bankruptcy, I wonder if this is a moot point.
Posted November 20, 2014
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amok: you do realise that boycotts like this hurts developers like Reality Pump much more than the publisher? You are also punishing Reality Pump here for Topware's actions.
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F1ach: If you can suggest a better way for me to punish Topware other than not buying products they release, I will be happy to take it on board. :)
not beyond spreading information so no other developer sign up with them, not. And feel free to do campaigns like this, but be aware of who you are really hurting also. it is just a bit strange if you are doing this in sympathy that a developer studio is in problem, by helping to make sure another will be?
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amok: you do realise that boycotts like this hurts developers like Reality Pump much more than the publisher? You are also punishing Reality Pump here for Topware's actions.
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grimwerk: Given that Topware has filed for bankruptcy, I wonder if this is a moot point.
fair enough, but then it is a double reason not to boycott Ravens Cry, as the IP will either revert back to Reality Pump or picked up by someone else. Either way the studio is in problem, and hindering sales of their latest game will only make it worse.
Post edited November 20, 2014 by amok
Posted November 20, 2014
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amok: you do realise that boycotts like this hurts developers like Reality Pump much more than the publisher? You are also punishing Reality Pump here for Topware's actions.
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grimwerk: Given that Topware has filed for bankruptcy, I wonder if this is a moot point.
Why am I not surpised? It's the same familiar story. A company gets a good foothold, then gets greedy, then starts scamming and then goes bankrupt. And I'm not talking only about gaming companies....
Posted November 20, 2014
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HereForTheBeer: Before putting Topware in the hangman's noose of public opinion, any verification of the court cases and such? This is a bit one-sided for now, and retractions are all-but-pointless once the damage is done.
The article seemed pretty genuine and flow of events (Steam cancellation, litigations) check out.

It's also on their official blog so it's not just some shmo who impersonated them.

And finally, the timeline on their blog (been talking about this for over a year) indicate that this isn't a knee-jerk last minute idea.

I'd dub this one very likely.

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amok: you do realise that boycotts like this hurts developers like Reality Pump much more than the publisher? You are also punishing Reality Pump here for Topware's actions.
In the short term, it sucks for the couple of devs already with them (hope they manage to jump ship), but in the long term, it's more beneficial to send a clear message that this sort of crap won't fly, especially given that the law seems rather complacent and lax to take action (wouldn't be the first time).

Simply put, I want not to give these guys any money to keep their scam operations up more than I want to support the few devs already in their webs. When you think about it, it's a kindness to future devs who might get caught in this cesspool.

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grimwerk: Given that Topware has filed for bankruptcy, I wonder if this is a moot point.
Only once they are dead and buried.

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OlivawR: Instead of paying a lawyer they should've paid an accountant (I don't know if they need really that for a small studio) and self publish the game. This way they only had to split the money with Valve. Pay Valve, pay taxes, pay publisher, pay lawyer, pay...
I'm of that mindset also, but it's partly because I'm paranoid and partly because I'm an idiot as far as marketing goes.

When your product is good and you are an unknown, good marketing really pays off. Simply put, it's better to get 70% of a million copies sold and 100% of 10k copies sold.
Post edited November 20, 2014 by Magnitus
Posted November 20, 2014
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grimwerk: Given that Topware has filed for bankruptcy, I wonder if this is a moot point.
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Magnitus: Only once they are dead and buried.
Ahh, more specifically: I was wondering if Reality Pump will see proceeds from present sales before that money evaporates along with Topware.

That is, would it benefit Reality Pump if interested buyers were to wait until Topware is properly dead? I don't know. Maybe I should be addressing the question to Spinorial. He seems savvy on the subject.
Posted November 21, 2014
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apostolis80: same familiar story. A company gets a good foothold, then gets greedy, then starts scamming and then goes bankrupt. And I'm not talking only about gaming companies....
Locally i've heard a long time company/store had to close because of embezzlement from the upper levels. They could probably have earned 10x the amount in normal wages if they didn't cut the throat of who they worked for to take away needed funds to keep the company afloat....

Kinda sad. I thought the prices were a little high myself, but the products were good.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)How Topware screwed an indie studio(87 posts)(87 posts)
(87 posts)