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General discussion (archive)How GOG supposedly won against piracy(95 posts)(95 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted December 06, 2012
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Hawk52: I'm not going to touch the subject so much as get something off my chest.

Don't bring up morality on subjects like this, because here's the thing about morality: Morality is relative to the person deciding on their own moral compass; defined by the experiences and opinions of the person making the choice at that time. Just because something is illegal, or goes against a group or personal norm of others does not make it immoral to the person making that decision. It might be frowned upon by others and society in general, but that is not morality.
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StingingVelvet: I think there are moral absolutes. Rape, for example, is always immoral. And while some morality might be socially constructed, like say stoning women for having sex, I think that could still be absolutely immoral when viewed from outside the bubble.

That said piracy is not among these absolutes.
Well morality doesn't exist, it's just in our heads, when people like Peter Singer really work at it you get freaky results like... it's actually okay for you to sexually molest a badger, and killing human beings is actually not inherently wrong D:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Singer

I can't stand the guy though, or people who molest badgers.

Piracy sits in some grey areas of reasoning, the law is pretty black & white though. That said, I'd be lying if I said I have never pirated when I was younger or when funds are tight, yet I support the industry a lot as a consumer; my cupboard is filled with retail PSX, PS2, PS3, PSP and 3DS games and the PC has all its digitals. I think absolute pirates are rare in the gaming community.

I think like someone said above, the DRM is mainly to stop people burning copies and selling them around which actually steals a profit.
Posted December 06, 2012
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StingingVelvet: Like I said, I'm all for moral relativism. I just don't think sex could ever be a need that surpasses basic empathy enough to justify violent physical rape.
Oh, I agree. In the real, overpopulated world we live in, it's as certain as anything we can believe.
Post edited December 06, 2012 by Buckid
Posted December 06, 2012
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Protoss: Did GOG win against piracy?
Yes, they have. I've been playing games since I was 5, I'm gonna be 22 this month, but the first time in my life I bought a game legally was in April this year, when I joined GOG.
Posted December 06, 2012
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SweatyGremlins: Well morality doesn't exist, it's just in our heads, when people like Peter Singer really work at it you get freaky results like... it's actually okay for you to sexually molest a badger, and killing human beings is actually not inherently wrong D:
Morality certainly does exist and has been a constant concept since the first society formed. It's relative and socially constructed, not the same from one society or person to the next, but it has always existed and has its roots firmly planted in empathy and need for order.

I do not think physical rape could ever be justified under those core tenets, hence it as close to a moral absolute as possible and close enough I would consider it one.
Posted December 06, 2012
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SweatyGremlins: Well morality doesn't exist, it's just in our heads, when people like Peter Singer really work at it you get freaky results like... it's actually okay for you to sexually molest a badger, and killing human beings is actually not inherently wrong D:
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StingingVelvet: Morality certainly does exist and has been a constant concept since the first society formed. It's relative and socially constructed, not the same from one society or person to the next, but it has always existed and has its roots firmly planted in empathy and need for order.

I do not think physical rape could ever be justified under those core tenets, hence it as close to a moral absolute as possible and close enough I would consider it one.
Well it exists in a sense, everyone is taught their society's moral code and adheres to it. But it's like traffic rules, they exist but they are whatever we make them. So we have lived in societies where it was morally okay to beat women, or kill unwanted children.

So morality is dangerous if you allow it to become a 'force' of its own. Most moral systems are based on empathy, the ability to imagine experiences through other people's perspectives, so it is harmless and to the benefit of others in most cases.

However a moral system is not inherently tied to empathy, so you can see morality become 'perverted' at different times.
Post edited December 06, 2012 by SweatyGremlins
Posted December 06, 2012
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Licurg: Yes, they have. I've been playing games since I was 5, I'm gonna be 22 this month, but the first time in my life I bought a game legally was in April this year, when I joined GOG.
Steam's been winning against piracy for a long time as well then since you see that mentioned often on the forums that people went pirate -> Steam cause of the low pricing.

It's probably digital retail in general and the low price sales + easy availability these days that actually get people to spend money rather than just pirate stuff. (partly at least)
Posted December 06, 2012
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keeveek: The Witcher 2 was one of the most pirated games in USA. So no.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/the-witcher-2-pirated-45-million-times-cd-projekt-6346876
I remember that one... And i remember that i laughed about it.

What was it again... They took the size of the game... The average download speed and the number of seeders and then how long it had been out on torrents.

Then they did the calculations and said "look this is how many times its been pirated"

I also remember another dev basing their piracy numbers the same way and i think they got to over 50 million pirated copies (just to show how stupid it was)

Anyway

DRM dont help against pirates. People with no money are not going to buy it. People that want to test it well... There is no loss (200+ games / year is released). Pirates pirate everything to say that they would run out and buy everything they pirate if there was no piracy tomorrow is plain dumb.
Posted December 06, 2012
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Pheace: ...that actually get people to spend money rather than just pirate stuff. (partly at least)...
Do they really? Or is piracy still as bad as it was, maybe even increasing? Without sound statistical investigation we rely on guesswork and that can be misleading.

Actually I would also guess that piracy is slowly declining, but I don't know it really.

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SweatyGremlins: ...Well it exists in a sense, everyone is taught their society's moral code and adheres to it. But it's like traffic rules, they exist but they are whatever we make them. ...
Not all adhere to it. Society is so compartmentalized, there are probably many different morales one can choose from at every moment. The lowest comment nominator is the law. That is morale written on stone and well, everybody is obliged to adhere to it or is facing punishment for example by financial compensation.

Obivously piracy is difficult to persecute without big cuts in personal freedom or other uproars. CDP faced it with TW2. Better to change technology and eliminate the possibilities to pirate, for example by streaming.

For simple digital content (books, music, movies) it's probably just the service where you can compete, but for interactive content like games, maps, apps, I think you can fight effectively as long as you don't give the full thing to the customer but programm it as a remote service.
Post edited December 06, 2012 by Trilarion
Posted December 06, 2012
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Let me offer my own $0.02; Guillaume didn't say we "beat piracy" or anything like that. What he said was (to very loosely paraphrase him) using DRM as a protection against piracy is like wearing a raincoat to protect you from landmines. It is notably not effective. So why use it at all?

Piracy is an unsolvable problem. People who want free things will take them, especially if they don't feel that there's a moral imperative not to because they can tell themselves, "Hey, it's not like I'm stealing anything; the content is still there. I just made a copy!" It shouldn't surprise you--given that I work at a game company--that I'm anti-piracy. But I firmly believe DRM is a stupid, stupid way to try and solve the problem.

Guillaume's point is that there are better ways to entice people to buy your game instead of pirate it; we believe that GOG.com is one example of one of those better ways. Saying you can beat piracy is like saying you can solve thirst. There's a constant demand, and it requires continual efforts, study, adaptation, and dedication to improving what it is we offer.
Posted December 06, 2012
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Pheace: ...that actually get people to spend money rather than just pirate stuff. (partly at least)...
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Trilarion: Do they really? Or is piracy still as bad as it was, maybe even increasing? Without sound statistical investigation we rely on guesswork and that can be misleading.

Actually I would also guess that piracy is slowly declining, but I don't know it really.
I didn't say anything about the overall trend of piracy. Just that digital retail does get people to spend money where usually they would have just pirated it. Or what you often see as well, on stuff that people pirated before.
Posted December 06, 2012
What exactly did GOG win? I don't like articles' usual hyperboles.

If I set aside ethics for a moment, DRM-free distribution is another business solution. They offer carrot instead of stick. I assume many people are more comfortable visiting stores which treat them as customers not shoplifters. At least I do.
Posted December 06, 2012
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Mivas: What exactly did GOG win?
An all expenses paid trip to the Bahamas :D.
Posted December 06, 2012
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JudasIscariot: An all expenses paid trip to the Bahamas :D.
Nice. I support this idea! :D
Posted December 06, 2012
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JudasIscariot: An all expenses paid trip to the Bahamas :D.
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Mivas: Nice. I support this idea! :D
Actually, we all won a trip to scenic Warsaw. -_-
Posted December 06, 2012
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Mivas: Nice. I support this idea! :D
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TheEnigmaticT: Actually, we all won a trip to scenic Warsaw. -_-
Bahamas / Warsaw... what is the difference?
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General discussion (archive)How GOG supposedly won against piracy(95 posts)(95 posts)
(95 posts)