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I believe in gun ownership rights but the NRA are a bunch of lunatics with a gun fetish. There's a difference in recognizing and protecting the utility of arms for self-defense/recreational purposes and outright worship of them.
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Stuff: As one of the most heavily armed nations in the world I find it amusing that the UN or anyone could succeed in collecting even a tiny fraction of the guns now owned by Americans. . . I feel sure most all guns would "disappear" . . .=)
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Krypsyn: Can you imagine anyone, much less a foreign governing body like the U.N., trying to collect guns in Alabama, or Mississippi? I think there would be a lot of fresh holes in the ground, and not all of them filled with 'disappeared' guns, if you get my meaning.

And Chicago, LA, or New York City for that matter. :)
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anjohl: There is no reason for a private citizen to own a firearm unless it's for hunting, and Canada has that figured out perfectly. Compare the crime rates...there's no counter argument, guns are not the way to go.
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DarrkPhoenix: Actually, at just over 30 guns per 100 people Canada has one of the higher rates of gun ownership in the world. Interestingly, one of the countries with the lowest rates of gun ownership is Nigeria... want to guess what the crime rate is like there?

Lofl, hunting Rifles which are STRICTLY regulated are not the type of guns we are talking about.
We are talking about gun CULTURE, not statistics of ownership.
Those little Streamlights are fun. Thing that sucks about them is the batteries only last like 2 hours.
I'm a Glock fan. I have Glock 22 and 27 (.40S&W). Expenive, but worth it in my opinion. Have had pins etc break, but the gun still fired when I needed it.
Remmington 870 Marine Magnum is the Shotgun for me. (I know some ppl who love the Baretta Semi-auto, so I'm a little curious)
I've heard some ppl really loving the BullPup design. Any one shoot one? The AR is accurate, I like it, I'm just curious how a smaller rifle handles.
Post edited January 18, 2010 by denyasis
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anjohl: Those things kill the USER, guns allow the USER to kill OTHER people.
There is no reason for a private citizen to own a firearm unless it's for hunting, and Canada has that figured out perfectly. Compare the crime rates...there's no counter argument, guns are not the way to go.

That's why you're in Canada and I'm in the U.S. You nor anyone else has the right to tell me what I can/can't own, that should go for drugs as well (I dont use any type of drug).
My AR-15 is my business. If I were a lunatic, I could do just as much damage with a bolt action large caliber rifle than my AR. I can hit at longer ranges with the hits being much more lethal. I can take a Ruger 10/22 .22LR rifle, which is much cheaper than an AR-15 or other "assault" setup and do much damage.
The fact is if I wanted to do it, I would with or without guns. Differentiating between hunting guns and other guns is a irrelevant argument, because most crimes are performed with smaller calibers and shotguns. The only challenge of ownership I find open to debate is that of handguns. Hardly ever do you see legally owned assault rifles used in crimes here. People don't understand the U.S... we're not crazy because we have guns. We're just an ignorant, aggressive population. Might as well do away with blades.
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anjohl: Lofl, hunting Rifles which are STRICTLY regulated are not the type of guns we are talking about.
We are talking about gun CULTURE, not statistics of ownership.

What differentiates hunting guns from other guns? The way it looks? I'm pretty sure all guns function the same according to what they are (rifle, shotgun, etc)
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Metro09: I believe in gun ownership rights but the NRA are a bunch of lunatics with a gun fetish. There's a difference in recognizing and protecting the utility of arms for self-defense/recreational purposes and outright worship of them.

Whats wrong with "outright" ownership? Whats wrong with just buying a gun and putting it in a safe because I felt like collecting it, than buying it with the intent to use it on someone who trespasses? People collect things that are much more odd than guns.
Post edited January 18, 2010 by mct601
I don't know, some guns scream sexy:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/larryf1952/Guns%20and%20Targets/ColtAnaconda.jpg
I am lucky enough to live in Wyoming (aka the middle of nowhere) and we have more guns than people in our state. also our legislature is trying to pass a Montana style gun bill if it manufactured in Wyoming, purchased by a resident and does not leave the state it will not be federally regulated. Nice thing about guns being regulated by interstate commerce.
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Metro09: I believe in gun ownership rights but the NRA are a bunch of lunatics with a gun fetish. There's a difference in recognizing and protecting the utility of arms for self-defense/recreational purposes and outright worship of them.

Indeed, as I said earlier I won't be a member because I like their general idea but not how they get to it. Guns are tools for varmint control, food acquisition, and self-defense.
Criminals will get guns regardless of laws because, here's a shocker to all nay-sayers, criminals are criminals! I can get an AK off the black market for $200 with full auto capability and a few clips, that's cheaper than most civilian pistols. I still prefer to have legal weaponry, but the taxes on ammo just need to stop. Ammunition will be illegal before the guns are, that's how the new anti-gun nuts are trying to bring their dreams true in America. They will let us have the 2nd amendment and our guns, just no ammo to shoot with. Sad that people are so devoted to a false ideal.

Quoting system is killing me, had to make another post. You want a seckzy pistol? A new future gun form Magpul:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magpul_PDR
http://www.defensereview.com/stories/magpul/Magpul%20PDR_5.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/Evers_MagPul_PDR_PDW.svg/800px-Evers_MagPul_PDR_PDW.svg.png
I predict these will take the world by storm in the next few decades as long as Magpul markets it right.
Post edited January 18, 2010 by tb87670
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tb87670: Quoting system is killing me, had to make another post. You want a seckzy pistol? A new future gun form Magpul:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magpul_PDR
http://www.defensereview.com/stories/magpul/Magpul%20PDR_5.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/Evers_MagPul_PDR_PDW.svg/800px-Evers_MagPul_PDR_PDW.svg.png
I predict these will take the world by storm in the next few decades as long as Magpul markets it right.

That Colt is a blast to shoot. Almost took my arm off the first time I tried it.
The magpul looks nice, kinda reminds me of an FN (I think - I have trouble telling some of the bullpups apart). I dunno about taking the world by storm, AR's are the go to around here. I'd definitely love to give it a try.
My dream would be a Steyr AUG. Beautiful looking weapon (and great for left eye'd shooters like me). Alas, It will likely stay a dream. No way I could convince the spouse to let me have one.
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mct601: That's why you're in Canada and I'm in the U.S. You nor anyone else has the right to tell me what I can/can't own, that should go for drugs as well (I dont use any type of drug).
My AR-15 is my business. If I were a lunatic, I could do just as much damage with a bolt action large caliber rifle than my AR. I can hit at longer ranges with the hits being much more lethal. I can take a Ruger 10/22 .22LR rifle, which is much cheaper than an AR-15 or other "assault" setup and do much damage.

With rights come responsbility, so YOU as a citizen have a responsiblity to ensure that your guns NEVER cause undue harm to someone else, and obviously, the average gun-owning American cannot handle that responsbility, as the facts point out.
BTW, the "right to bear arms" refers to EVERY citizen having the right to fight for his country in the event of an attack, NOT the literal interpretation. You guys have a backwards constitutional interpretation paradigm; the "frozen" constitution, vs the living tree in Canada.
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Post edited January 18, 2010 by anjohl
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anjohl: We are talking about gun CULTURE, not statistics of ownership.

Exactly, or more precisely we are talking simply about culture (and a lot of other variables), not rates of gun ownership and gun control laws when it comes to crime rates. No matter what kind of mental acrobatics you try to perform the simple fact remains that the statistics out there do not support the assertion that blanket restrictions on gun ownership results in lower crime rates.
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anjohl: With rights come responsbility, so YOU as a citizen have a responsiblity to ensure that your guns NEVER cause undue harm to someone else, and obviously, the average gun-owning American cannot handle that responsbility, as the facts point out.

Consider that there are about 80 million gun owners in America, while there are around 10,000 gun homicides each year (of which the percentage committed by legally owned and registered guns is in the single digits in most states). Also consider that each year guns are legally used for self-defense 1.5-2.5 million times (depending on whose reports you go by). Given this information I'd say that the average American actually does a pretty good job of handling the responsibility of gun ownership.
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anjohl: BTW, the "right to bear arms" refers to EVERY citizen having the right to fight for his country in the event of an attack, NOT the literal interpretation.

The US Supreme Court disagrees with you.
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denyasis: That Colt is a blast to shoot. Almost took my arm off the first time I tried it.
The magpul looks nice, kinda reminds me of an FN (I think - I have trouble telling some of the bullpups apart). I dunno about taking the world by storm, AR's are the go to around here. I'd definitely love to give it a try.
My dream would be a Steyr AUG. Beautiful looking weapon (and great for left eye'd shooters like me). Alas, It will likely stay a dream. No way I could convince the spouse to let me have one.

Certain guns become great due to simple things. The PDW class weapons like P90's and MP7's are plagued with a common issue of requiring special ammo. In the field this means logistics needs to ship out crates of magazines that only work in those specific guns, and that is why those PDW's are only used by PMC's and the likes. The Magpul PDR uses standard NATO STANAG M16/M4 compatible magazines and ammunition. That eliminates the primary issue for PDW's. It's also a modern design on the inside and out, most guns being used by the militaries today are modified variants of guns from over 45 years ago. We needed a freshly design weapons without any of the constraints of older base platforms, and the PDR is one of the stepping stones this happening. I'm not sure if the gun itself will become popular but it's design is likely to influence future weaponry.
AUG's, well I will accredit it to being the first good bullpup but I hope you don't mean the older ones as your dream. The A3's I like a lot, modernized and functional versions of the AUG wouldn't be a bad idea for any nation to adopt, and in fact like 10 or so have adopted them as their official firearms.
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anjohl: BTW, the "right to bear arms" refers to EVERY citizen having the right to fight for his country in the event of an attack, NOT the literal interpretation.
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DarrkPhoenix: The US Supreme Court disagrees with you.

But he has such a strong understanding of the Constitution (for a Canadian)!
Also, lawl at "it is a legal document but it doesn't mean what it says it means!"
...Whether I agree or not with the actual message of this video, I have to say that it was poorly presented. The NRA is not going to change anyone's mind about gun control by broadcasting, along with the standard message of "Stand up for your right to bear arms," that they are xenophobic conspiracy-theorists who worship weapons. I got the impression that the anti-gun lobby is populated with much more reasonable-minded people, and the NRA representatives who did seem like they had a logical argument to make weren't given a lot of screen-time.
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anjohl: BTW, the "right to bear arms" refers to EVERY citizen having the right to fight for his country in the event of an attack, NOT the literal interpretation. You guys have a backwards constitutional interpretation paradigm; the "frozen" constitution, vs the living tree in Canada.

The actual text of the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution that was ratified by the states is as follows:
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." [ quoted from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution ]
Thus, I would argue that the right to bear arms is used primarily as a safeguard against the tyranny of government.