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General discussion (archive)Graphics card questions(81 posts)(81 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted January 17, 2012
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TCMU2009: Okay, so Crossfire isn't worth it with the 6000 series right now, but in two to three years I might find another cheap 6950 and get a performance boost that way.
Perhaps, but this would also mean buying a more powerful power supply, so you might still be better off buying a whole new graphics card when the time comes. Of course you could get a ridiculously overkill power supply now and not worry about it in the future, but I can't really see why anyone would do that.

Also - and I know that you didn't ask about this - steer clear of water cooling. The effectiveness might seem tempting, but it's also an enormous and expensive hassle.
Posted January 17, 2012
People use water to cool their computers? That seems really archaic. I'm going to read up on how to proper cool mine. It sounds extremely important. Now what is overclocking? Is that like flipping a switch and pushing your card past its limits?
Posted January 17, 2012
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TCMU2009: People use water to cool their computers? That seems really archaic. I'm going to read up on how to proper cool mine. It sounds extremely important. Now what is overclocking? Is that like flipping a switch and pushing your card past its limits?
Watercooling does not use water but synthetic alcools. It is effective in terms of heat reduction but not efficient ( expensive and might be a source of problems ).

Proper cooling is somehow fairly simple : a well designed case, well placed fans, a good CPU cooler. Noctua's are sure bets. Intel stock coolers are not that bad either.

Overclocking is tweaking the frequencies of some components to milk more performance out of it. If you do not know what it is, just stay clear of that. However, some graphic cards are sold with already overclocked settings. imho, it's above all a marketing trick. you get a few % more perfs in benchmarks, you pay 10% more...
Posted January 17, 2012
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TCMU2009: People use water to cool their computers? That seems really archaic. I'm going to read up on how to proper cool mine. It sounds extremely important. Now what is overclocking? Is that like flipping a switch and pushing your card past its limits?
Water can move more heat than air. Same reason water cooling is used in cars. But good water cooling is expensive, and cheap water cooling is no good. You have to be well experienced in building and maintaining computers, and willing to put a lot of effort into making it work right.

Cramped computers overheat. Unless you are a mechanical engineer by trade, you will be best served with a large, well ventilated case and plenty of fans.

Overclocking is more like twisting a dial than flipping a switch, but yes, the objective is to push your CPU or your GPU past its designed limit. Manufacturers are pretty conservative, because they don't like dealing with "hey, this wouldn't run at its rated clock speed" returns. So the designed limits are often well below the average capability of these devices.

Overclocking is generally easier than, say, water cooling, but it is still something that only an experienced computer builder and maintainer should be doing.
Posted January 17, 2012
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TCMU2009: People use water to cool their computers? That seems really archaic. I'm going to read up on how to proper cool mine. It sounds extremely important. Now what is overclocking? Is that like flipping a switch and pushing your card past its limits?
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cjrgreen: Water can move more heat than air. Same reason water cooling is used in cars. But good water cooling is expensive, and cheap water cooling is no good. You have to be well experienced in building and maintaining computers, and willing to put a lot of effort into making it work right.
Right, well generally, they don't use actual water. Personally, I messed around with it one time and I won't be doing it again. It might be worthwhile for significant overclocking, if the ambient temperature is too high or you have a cramped case.

But you're absolutely correct about doing other things first as liquid cooling is both expensive and a PITA.

FWIW, I didn't have any trouble getting it working even without knowing much about it, some of the kits are quite easy to use, so long as you mind the thermal dissipation requirements for your set up.
Posted January 17, 2012
Water cooling can be an attractive option for people who like their computers to run as silent as possible, however this is a bit of a fallacy. Even though you remove some fans, you'll still have your PSU fans and the noise from the hard drive (HDD). Solid State Drives (SSD) are obviously an option but they are once again pricey (you don't want a low-end one) and completely worthless when it comes to storage requirements.

So don't get water cooling.
Posted January 17, 2012
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FraterPerdurabo: SLI / Crossfire adds between 10-20% performance AFAIK, so no, not worth it.
You're a little outta date crossfire is now 60-80% on average with cards from the 5xxx onwards
Posted January 17, 2012
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FraterPerdurabo: Water cooling can be an attractive option for people who like their computers to run as silent as possible, however this is a bit of a fallacy. Even though you remove some fans, you'll still have your PSU fans and the noise from the hard drive (HDD). Solid State Drives (SSD) are obviously an option but they are once again pricey (you don't want a low-end one) and completely worthless when it comes to storage requirements.

So don't get water cooling.
Depends on the set up, but if you go fanless, you also significantly increase the size of the necessary radiator. For most people who just want silent they're better off with a larger case and a big honking heatsink.

But yes, don't get liquid cooling, it's a real PITA to maintain compared with other options. It is kind of cool, but the novelty wears off fairly quickly and you can damage your equipment if the coolant runs low or leaks.
Posted January 17, 2012
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cjrgreen: Water can move more heat than air. Same reason water cooling is used in cars. But good water cooling is expensive, and cheap water cooling is no good. You have to be well experienced in building and maintaining computers, and willing to put a lot of effort into making it work right.
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hedwards: Right, well generally, they don't use actual water. Personally, I messed around with it one time and I won't be doing it again. It might be worthwhile for significant overclocking, if the ambient temperature is too high or you have a cramped case.

But you're absolutely correct about doing other things first as liquid cooling is both expensive and a PITA.

FWIW, I didn't have any trouble getting it working even without knowing much about it, some of the kits are quite easy to use, so long as you mind the thermal dissipation requirements for your set up.
Some serious overclockers actually use just water (deionized). Water has better viscosity and thermal properties than anything else, though it's sort of machinery-unfriendly.

The proprietary coolants contain water, though they're not straight water. Koolance, for example, is 70% water, 27% propylene glycol, 3% other additives. Most other formulas are likewise similar to automotive coolants, though automotive coolants may use corrosion inhibitors that attack the plastics in PC coolers. Usually you can get a good picture of what is in the coolant from the MSDS. Here's an article on PC coolant formulas: http://www.overclockers.com/pc-water-coolant-chemistry-part-ii/
Post edited January 17, 2012 by cjrgreen
Posted January 17, 2012
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cjrgreen: Some serious overclockers actually use just water (deionized). Water has better viscosity and thermal properties than anything else, though it's sort of machinery-unfriendly.

The proprietary coolants contain water, though they're not straight water. Koolance, for example, is 70% water, 27% propylene glycol, 3% other additives. Most other formulas are likewise similar to automotive coolants, though automotive coolants may use corrosion inhibitors that attack the plastics in PC coolers. Usually you can get a good picture of what is in the coolant from the MSDS. Here's an article on PC coolant formulas: http://www.overclockers.com/pc-water-coolant-chemistry-part-ii/
I think it's a matter of perspective there, it feels wrong to me to call it water and to introduce the confusion even if it is mostly water. The coolant is as accurately described as water as Kool-Aid is.
Posted January 17, 2012
So if fans are the way to go, how many fans are we talking about here? I haven't really looked into the cooling aspect of the computer yet. Do the fans go inside the case with the card, or are they somehow connected from the outside?
Posted January 17, 2012
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TCMU2009: So if fans are the way to go, how many fans are we talking about here? I haven't really looked into the cooling aspect of the computer yet. Do the fans go inside the case with the card, or are they somehow connected from the outside?
Fans mount inside the case. When you read the case specifications, they will tell you how many fans you can mount and what size they need to be. They will also tell you how many fans come with the case.

Your motherboard will have one or more "chassis fan" connectors. Better motherboards will have two or more (maybe four) of these. The fans plug into these connectors, allowing the CPU to control fan speed.

You don't need to load up the case with all the fans it can possibly take. More fans = more noise. My "big box" has 5 fan positions, but I have mounted only 3 (front intake, rear exhaust, top exhaust). But those are mighty fans: 120mm Scythe Slipstreams that can move 110 cfm (cubic feet per minute) each.
Post edited January 17, 2012 by cjrgreen
Posted January 17, 2012
Also, having a good case is important, don't bother with the full tower cases unless you want to build a monster of a computer. Both in size and performance. A mid-tower case fits a nice computer easily whilst giving ample air flow. Plenty of choices and make sure to find one that has cable management.

Like water cooling, it can be a right pain to maintain cables if the case has no holes to thread them through. Which is the case for my current (soon to be replaced) case.
Posted January 17, 2012
So along with a good video card and processor, I'll need a good motherboard with plenty of fan spots; a power supply; several fans; and a case that fits all of this in the most efficient manner possible. That's quite a bit.

Can anyone direct me to a site with several of the best of these components? Also, I'm assuming if I custom order these parts that I will have to assemble them myself? Or are there places that will do that for someone inexperienced like me?
Posted January 17, 2012
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TCMU2009: So along with a good video card and processor, I'll need a good motherboard with plenty of fan spots; a power supply; several fans; and a case that fits all of this in the most efficient manner possible. That's quite a bit.

Can anyone direct me to a site with several of the best of these components? Also, I'm assuming if I custom order these parts that I will have to assemble them myself? Or are there places that will do that for someone inexperienced like me?
If you're in the "lower 48", Newegg (http://www.newegg.com) is the best there is. Watch their videos on "how to build a computer" at
http://www.newegg.com/Store/Promotion.aspx?storeid=33&name=DIY-PC-Combos
then decide for yourself whether you're up for all that. It's easier than it looks, so long as you can work a screwdriver without stabbing yourself :)
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)Graphics card questions(81 posts)(81 posts)
(81 posts)