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Runehamster: Actually, that means bunnies are DEFINED as evil. It's neither true nor false, it simply is.
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AndrewC: Actually double equals sign are used to verify if the equality is true or not, not to assign a value.

bunnies == evil can return TRUE or FALSE depending on the value bunnies has.

If you wanted to "define" bunnies are evil you'd just need to do bunnies = evil.
Actually it depends on the values of BOTH bunnies AND evil.
evil = good
bunnies = bad
bunnies == evil

FALSE

unless of course bad == good

but all of that pre-supposes you haven't written your own equality operators.in which case ...


... I need a better day job

/sneaks off hoping no-one noticed
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Gersen: Pretty bad comparison, there is a world of difference (...)
It's supposed to make you THINK, not latch onto the obvious discrepancies.
FFS - why do you people always have such a hard time taking my analogies at anything other than face value ? I use them to convey information FASTER, otherwise I'd have to dig deep into the axiological issues, find the relevant branch, find arguments for and against and turn every thread into a *** lecture.
Instead I point a finger and people say "that's a nice finger but what does it have to do with anything".
Rule of thumb: if what I say doesn't make sense to you, you're probably interpreting it wrong.

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Gersen: a private company who already has all of this information available in it's system, has nearly full control over it and not to mention a company whose job is to sell said information to announcers.
So WHAT ? What I was trying to say is that the information is out there, everywhere, always... and it doesn't *** matter. Why would you try to not make make it exist in the first place ? You're disseminating information by communicating with anyone about anything. That's what communication IS FOR. This can be rebroadcasted, captured, twisted, utilized - whatever. There's gossip, there are TV news, twitter accounts and IRC. People take pictures of themselves and each other to document, to remember, to save information. The exact opposite of privacy is transparency - being overt in your actions. Kant commented on legislation's equivalent of the categorical imperative, saying that you should only pass a law as long as you wouldn't mind honestly telling people what it is about...
What is this "private company" doing that's so worrying ? Do you trust your friends better ?
A company has neither a motive, malicious intents nor personal interest in your precious data. There's no point in digging through astronomical amounts of content unless you're specifically looking for something. What makes you so special that people would invest time and effort into finding things out about you ?
Guess what - the same thing that makes the Internet an unprecedented threat to "privacy" is the one we cherish the most about it - it connects, allows the information to flow. With the atomization, fragmentation, isolation - whatever you want to call it - that our beloved societies sunk deeper and deeper into from at least the XX. century... maximizing privacy is the last thing people need.
I WANT my custom ads. I WANT to see things relevant to me. I'm confused as hell when I hear of people who'd rather inconvenience themselves every step of the way than let their input be stored.
What we need is trust and honesty, not secrecy and paranoia.

tl;dr No one gives a *** about you, it's just an automated system processing things. Your washing machine doesn't sniff your underwear, Google doesn't read your emails.

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Gersen: Yeah right, privacy is only a concern for those who have something to hide everybody knows that...
It's almost a definition, isn't it ? Privacy is about you not wanting others to find out about something. I'm not saying it only has to apply to evil acts, I'm not saying a world with no privacy at all would be nice... but as long as you're a good person, an invasion of privacy can be embarrassing, annoying or impolite but hardly anything beyond that.
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Vestin: Rule of thumb: if what I say doesn't make sense to you, you're probably interpreting it wrong.
Or more likely it's you making a totally fallacious comparison.

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Gersen: There's gossip, there are TV news, twitter accounts and IRC. People take pictures of themselves and each other to document, to remember, to save information.
Once again you totally forget the notion of CHOICE, if peoples decide to share some of their pictures, share some of their thought on twitter fine it's their choice, but then it's totally silly to say that because some peoples accept to share some part of their life online then it's ok to have all their private life made public, shared, stored, whatsoever and that they shouldn't care, it's nothing but a big fat fallacy.

The technology makes it easier to share and persist information,yes, but If anything it should make peoples a lot more careful about what part of their private life they accept to share as something seemingly innocent today could have unexpected dire consequences several years later.

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Vestin: What is this "private company" doing that's so worrying ? Do you trust your friends better ?
A company has neither a motive, malicious intents nor personal interest in your precious data.
Except that you don't tell everything to your friend either, your friend don't have access to your personal e-mail, your photos, your search history, etc... and they don't make you "sign" a contract in which you basically agree to let them do whatever they want with your personal info

And a "private company" also has no moral, no remorse, if it can uses your info for anything that could increase it's profits and as long as there is no law preventing it, it will do it without any hesitation. Once the data is there, stored, you have absolutely no control over it, it can be hacked, consulted by an unscrupulous employee, seized, sold to others, etc...

The whole "we need trust and honesty" thing is "cute" but is hardly practical in the real life, if it was working at all we wouldn't need laws.

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Gersen: It's almost a definition, isn't it ? Privacy is about you not wanting others to find out about something. I'm not saying it only has to apply to evil acts, I'm not saying a world with no privacy at all would be nice... but as long as you're a good person, an invasion of privacy can be embarrassing, annoying or impolite but hardly anything beyond that.
Again a pretty silly comments, privacy is a basic right, even protected by laws in a lot of civilized countries it has absolutely nothing to do with being a "good" or "bad", if you don't want to share some part of your life with others nobody has the rights to forces you. (Unless of course there is a legal justification)
Post edited January 25, 2012 by Gersen
And that's why I only use Chrome for Hulu / youtube.
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kavazovangel: Bing. :p
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HereForTheBeer: And Yahoo. It ain't perfect, but it doesn't leave me with that icky Google feeling, either.

Google of tomorrow is going to make Microsoft of yesteryear look like complete amateurs when it comes to attempting market domination.
Lifehacker said DuckDuckGo was a very viable alternative to Google search as well.
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Vestin: you shouldn't be concerned unless you did something you shouldn't ever do in the first place.
Really? This argument? How do people get through school and still believe this? History class alone should have had enough clue bats to disabuse them of said notion.
Post edited January 25, 2012 by orcishgamer
Just use SRWIron, it's like Chrome but without all the 1984 stuff.
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HereForTheBeer: And Yahoo. It ain't perfect, but it doesn't leave me with that icky Google feeling, either.

Google of tomorrow is going to make Microsoft of yesteryear look like complete amateurs when it comes to attempting market domination.
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orcishgamer: Lifehacker said DuckDuckGo was a very viable alternative to Google search as well.
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Vestin: you shouldn't be concerned unless you did something you shouldn't ever do in the first place.
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orcishgamer: Really? This argument? How do people get through school and still believe this? History class alone should have had enough clue bats to disabuse them of said notion.
agreed. I can think of so many ways this can be abused :/

insurance companies and banks are starting to sift online for information about people. The justia.com link goes into great detail about this:
http://verdict.justia.com/2012/01/03/will-insurers-begin-to-use-social-media-postings-to-calculate-premiums
http://web.wmitchell.edu/news/2011/07/social-media-and-insurance-fraud-professor-gregory-duhl-explains/
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/blogs/press-here/Banks-Now-Judge-You-By-Your-Facebook-Friends-135674713.html
"According to Betabeat, a new crop of startups are creating algorithms for banks to gather social network data on customers and potential customers. Part of the reason, aside from marketing, is that banks assume that friends have similar credit scores and assets." (emphasis mine - nbcbayarea.com).

It is things like these that make me scared to use social networking. As pointed out in the justia.com article, just seeing a picture does not tell the whole story without context. Plus, some people do share the same name, and may not be the right John Smith one is thinking of. Also, how is it that I'm supposed to be responsible for a friend defaulting on a loan? I can't control what they do, nor do I care too.

tl;dr: The point is, there is good reason to be very concerned about how these companies are using our information and what they collect.
This sets google up for a huge burn if they are not careful. Imagine some kid under the age of 13 lied about his or her age or having permission from a parent just to set up a gmail account just to use youtube. Now when the company finds out about it, they might close the account or something of that nature. Of course, the damage has been done, but wait, there's more. Imagine the companies that got the data from google. They could be a lot of trouble, too. That's kind of why they need to be strict about data privacy. I guess having 1 Privacy Policy saves reading, but they can't just distribute personal data without that risking letting a pre-teen's data out and getting into a lot of legal trouble.
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NessAndSonic: This sets google up for a huge burn if they are not careful. Imagine some kid under the age of 13 lied about his or her age or having permission from a parent just to set up a gmail account just to use youtube. Now when the company finds out about it, they might close the account or something of that nature. Of course, the damage has been done, but wait, there's more. Imagine the companies that got the data from google. They could be a lot of trouble, too. That's kind of why they need to be strict about data privacy. I guess having 1 Privacy Policy saves reading, but they can't just distribute personal data without that risking letting a pre-teen's data out and getting into a lot of legal trouble.
I'm pretty sure that if a person lies to Google about their age in order to join that Google isn't responsible for that. In fact, I'm pretty sure that if you look in the ToS you'll find a clause dealing with it.

The bottom line here is that if a person fraudulently agrees to the ToS, Google isn't on the hook for any of the results of that fraud. They'll cancel the account immediately, and Google doesn't typically share any of that information so it essentially dies with them.

But, ultimately, there's no way that Google can know the age of everybody that signs up, nor does the legislation require them to know.
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Gersen: Yeah right, privacy is only a concern for those who have something to hide everybody knows that...
certainly not, but it depends a lot on what is collected and to what extent your privacy is really invaded. some people act as if it were already unacceptable if Google stores your search keywords.
Use duckduckgo as an alternative (i know the name sounds crappy), but so far it's reliable according to my younger brother who has used it since beta day.

Info:
http://donttrack.us/
http://dontbubble.us/
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wormholewizards: Use duckduckgo as an alternative (i know the name sounds crappy), but so far it's reliable according to my younger brother who has used it since beta day.

Info:
http://donttrack.us/
http://dontbubble.us/
I have been using it for the past 3 or 4 hours and I think it is good. Not as good as Google but close. A small price to pay to not have a corporation spy on me every time I want to search for something.
Post edited January 26, 2012 by macuahuitlgog
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wormholewizards: Use duckduckgo as an alternative (i know the name sounds crappy), but so far it's reliable according to my younger brother who has used it since beta day.

Info:
http://donttrack.us/
http://dontbubble.us/
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macuahuitlgog: I have been using it for the past 3 or 4 hours and I think it is good. Not as good as Google but close. A small price to pay to not have a corporation spy on me every time I want to search for something.
Same as me, been using it less than 20 hours ago. I think by set the region to United States, it produce much accurate result; Google-esque. And it's search filtering maybe too strict, but it's fine to me. I'm sure it will get better as time goes by.
I don't think I am too concerned with this. I barely use my Gmail account, and it is mostly to subscribe to newsletter anyway. As for my Android phone, it's only for Android Market, and well I am not online 24/7 either, don't use GPS, etc. I don't use all other services. No Google+, no Maps, no Youtube either. So I am not too concerned with this.

Of course I use the search engine, and if they really want to know whether I search for kinky stuff or not, so be it :-P
Post edited January 26, 2012 by tarangwydion
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wormholewizards: ...
There are many sides to this of course. I recently "argued" with a friend of mine who was quite convinced that many companies will move their stuff (emails, documents etc.) to Google cloud, instead of everyone processing everything locally and syncing it with servers. When I pointed out that companies do not necesarily want to share information with Google, he seemed to feel that is no problem to most companies, without further explanation.

Many companies will move their stuff to cloud, but I really don't think they let Google maintain and save the data, but the clouds will be internal to the company. But maybe some "cloud expert" thinks the opposite.


As for individuals, it seems to me more and more "young people" couldn't care less if their personal life is all over the world. In fact, the Facebook generation wants their life to be as public as possible. For them, the answer to the question of companies having data about them and their life is: "So what?".

I am one of older generation who'd rather still keep at least some privacy, even if it is not sometimes possible.
Post edited January 26, 2012 by timppu