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General discussion (archive)Google is pissing me off(109 posts)(109 posts)
(109 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted December 27, 2012
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silviucc: "I'm a millionaire in waiting"
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bowtux: I know, I know.
Huh?! I never said that.
Posted December 27, 2012
You know what the fun thing is? The whole reason MS actually got charged (important word) with that antitrust lawsuit is not because it was bundling IE with the OS, which seems to be the reason most people associate with the whole ordeal, but the fact that they were going to charge OEMs more per copy of Windows if they installed any alternative browser (Netscape at that time) on the machines they sold.

MS could have went on happily bundling IE without any issues whatsoever if they didn't act like morons and try to force the hand of their partners.

Fortunately they learned their lesson.
Posted December 27, 2012
I think there's a lot of misinformation in this topic, to be honest, and people having wrong priorities.

Yes, companies selling our info are bad - and they nearly all do it. However, you're NOT forced to use Google+ to use Youtube - that's a blatant lie. You can opt out and that's what I did. I Don't have Google+ and can use Youtube just fine and even comment.

Also, there's worse things than a company merging elements. Look at what Apple did: it made their software the ONLY software you could use with their hardware and that software is very very limited in what it can do to boot. Or how about, again, Apple who made it so you could only use apps that they approved? Android has a thriving emulation community, the iPhone doesn't unless you jailbreak it which voids warranty.

Heck, tons of sites force you to use Facebook - take 9gag - which I find a lot more annoying since these sites often post on your wall what you're up to. Seriously, compared to what other companies are up to, Google are pretty benign. They can collect all my Googling data for all I care - as long as it's just for advertising, I'm fine with it since I have adblock anyway.
Posted December 27, 2012
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hedwards: 'snip
I think that if they hadn't been engaging in that behavior that just bundling IE would have been legal. Or at least it would have been a more difficult sell to the jury as an antitrust violation.
It does look like we're on the same page here, although I still think bundeling in IE should be allowed for at least the minimum of allowing users to download alternative programs. Even most linux distros come with firefox and Macs with Safari, everyone expects their computer to come with some form of a browser. With that said, I definitely agree that what happened to Microsoft was their own fault, they should not have acted like morons as AndrewC put it.

To try to bring this thread of conversation back onto the topic of the original thread topic, I have a feeling that google is becoming the next Microsoft. I mean they are big and they have their tentacles in on everything: Search, videos, advertising, email, google docs, cartography, translate, tablets, social media, etc.

Taking a look at the even more section it is rather alarming, although granted google and google products are technically optional to use. There have been reports of how google is starting to get into some rather anti-competitive behavior
(pdf warning) http://cci.gov.in/images/media/ResearchReports/Google_Abuse%20of%20Dominant%20Position.pdf
start reading from page 17, my mind is shutting down too tired to think much deeper on this. Good products but questionable ethics.

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Red_Avatar: 'snip
sadly, I agree. Google is still one of the lesser evils of the internet
Post edited December 27, 2012 by Thunderstone
Posted December 27, 2012
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Red_Avatar: However, you're NOT forced to use Google+ to use Youtube - that's a blatant lie. You can opt out and that's what I did. I Don't have Google+ and can use Youtube just fine and even comment.
How do you do that? Every time I try to comment, a "set up your channel on youtube" window pops up.
What you'll get

A YouTube channel
Your name will appear on your YouTube channel along with your public videos and playlists.

A Google+ profile
Your channel comes with a public Google+ profile. It helps friends find your videos and other content you share on Google.
"Continue" presumably sets up the channel, complete with the google+ profile. "Cancel" cancels both the channel setup and whatever it is that I am trying to do on youtube.
Posted December 27, 2012
There is nothing I do online that I would care if anyone found out about (except my credit card details of course). I have a very low profile online but not through being careful (or paraniod if you want to look at that way) but simply through choosing what I want to do online and not what the world thinks I should want to do. (I just googled myself and found nothing at all.)

I have a brain and I can choose not to click every add or link I see. I happen not to be interested in social media (the odd discussion forum like this one excepted) because I feel they are time eaters with very little real pay-back to my personal quality of life. And, strangely enough, I get very little spam email as a result.

"Profiling" has always happened - e.g. the corner shop owner remembering your liking for <insert favourite passtime here> magazines and starting to stock more of them. Anyone who has a credit card is profiled and even more so if you have a store card. I don't particularly like as I feel (and it is just a feeling) that it has a tendency to push people into focusing thier view too narrowlly and I find that a lot of my favourite experiences in life have been the unexpected ones that come out of left field. But, again, I have a brain and can counter that myself through active choices.

I use AdBlockPlus as much because I aesthetically don't like the clutter ads cause when I am searching or browsing as to avoid the ads themselves. I use the online services (Google included) I find useful to me and ignore the ones I don't.

Life has too many real things to get stressed about - stressing about what other people choose to do with information about me is one I can live without.
Posted December 27, 2012
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AndrewC: You know what the fun thing is? The whole reason MS actually got charged (important word) with that antitrust lawsuit is not because it was bundling IE with the OS, which seems to be the reason most people associate with the whole ordeal, but the fact that they were going to charge OEMs more per copy of Windows if they installed any alternative browser (Netscape at that time) on the machines they sold.

MS could have went on happily bundling IE without any issues whatsoever if they didn't act like morons and try to force the hand of their partners.

Fortunately they learned their lesson.
Well, sort of, they were bundling a version of IE that was deliberately incompatible with Netscape and so there was an antitrust violation there whether or not they charged extra for the privilege of installing a different browser by default. It's just that it was too much for the DoJ to look the other way on.

Also, keep in mind that until MS started illegally bundling their browser Netscape was the dominant browser and did not benefit from being owned by the larges OS maker in the market.

But,, it's really a moot point as MS really should have been broken up at the time just as Google should be broken up now, there's just a lack of political will to actually enforce the law when it comes to large corporations.
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hedwards: 'snip
I think that if they hadn't been engaging in that behavior that just bundling IE would have been legal. Or at least it would have been a more difficult sell to the jury as an antitrust violation.
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Thunderstone: It does look like we're on the same page here, although I still think bundeling in IE should be allowed for at least the minimum of allowing users to download alternative programs. Even most linux distros come with firefox and Macs with Safari, everyone expects their computer to come with some form of a browser. With that said, I definitely agree that what happened to Microsoft was their own fault, they should not have acted like morons as AndrewC put it.
The difference is that none of the Linux distors are prevalent enough to make a difference and all of them have a convenient way of loading a new browser without needing a browser. If Linux had a 90% marketshare, that would be completely different.

But yes, we're probably on the whole fairly close.
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brianhutchison: There is nothing I do online that I would care if anyone found out about (except my credit card details of course). I have a very low profile online but not through being careful (or paraniod if you want to look at that way) but simply through choosing what I want to do online and not what the world thinks I should want to do. (I just googled myself and found nothing at all.)

I have a brain and I can choose not to click every add or link I see. I happen not to be interested in social media (the odd discussion forum like this one excepted) because I feel they are time eaters with very little real pay-back to my personal quality of life. And, strangely enough, I get very little spam email as a result.

"Profiling" has always happened - e.g. the corner shop owner remembering your liking for <insert favourite passtime here> magazines and starting to stock more of them. Anyone who has a credit card is profiled and even more so if you have a store card. I don't particularly like as I feel (and it is just a feeling) that it has a tendency to push people into focusing thier view too narrowlly and I find that a lot of my favourite experiences in life have been the unexpected ones that come out of left field. But, again, I have a brain and can counter that myself through active choices.

I use AdBlockPlus as much because I aesthetically don't like the clutter ads cause when I am searching or browsing as to avoid the ads themselves. I use the online services (Google included) I find useful to me and ignore the ones I don't.

Life has too many real things to get stressed about - stressing about what other people choose to do with information about me is one I can live without.
Honestly, I am too, but it doesn't prevent me from receiving personalized spam complete with my name and mailing address.

The jack asses at TD Ameritrade didn't think it was important to keep their Personally Identifable Information off of their internet facing servers and delayed notifying users for at least a month after the information was leaked to the internet.

As long as one is prepared to avoid doing anything online at all, one can have some modicum of privacy. As it is, those damned like buttons and random spyware on most sites makes it hard to truly avoid having all their activities monitored by random people online.
Post edited December 27, 2012 by hedwards
Posted December 27, 2012
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hedwards: The jack asses at TD Ameritrade didn't think it was important to keep their Personally Identifable Information off of their internet facing servers and delayed notifying users for at least a month after the information was leaked to the internet.
That is incompetence + maliciousness and, beyond taking reasonable (and proportionate) precautions, there is nothing you can do to avoid that. You shouldn't let fear of what might happen control your life. That is like people who are afraid to go out on Saturday night because they read about "all" the violence on our streets in the tabloids.
Posted December 27, 2012
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Red_Avatar: However, you're NOT forced to use Google+ to use Youtube - that's a blatant lie. You can opt out and that's what I did. I Don't have Google+ and can use Youtube just fine and even comment.
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Starmaker: How do you do that? Every time I try to comment, a "set up your channel on youtube" window pops up.
What you'll get

A YouTube channel
Your name will appear on your YouTube channel along with your public videos and playlists.

A Google+ profile
Your channel comes with a public Google+ profile. It helps friends find your videos and other content you share on Google.
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Starmaker: "Continue" presumably sets up the channel, complete with the google+ profile. "Cancel" cancels both the channel setup and whatever it is that I am trying to do on youtube.
I had a channel before so that's probably why it never asked me that. Just enter a fake name and that's it - it's a good way to share vids with friends anyway and to find your old favorites so I don't really see the issue. I mean, I have my real name attached to it yet I had the choice to hide all my personal info.
Posted December 27, 2012
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hedwards: Well, sort of, they were bundling a version of IE that was deliberately incompatible with Netscape
This is the first time I'm hearing something like this. Incompatible how exactly?

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hedwards: Also, keep in mind that until MS started illegally bundling their browser Netscape was the dominant browser and did not benefit from being owned by the larges OS maker in the market.
While I agree that that move had an impact you also need to remember that compared to IE6, Netscape was a fucking POS. I mean it had to reload the page if you wanted to resize the browser window.

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hedwards: But,, it's really a moot point as MS really should have been broken up at the time just as Google should be broken up now, there's just a lack of political will to actually enforce the law when it comes to large corporations.
I completely disagree in regards to breaking up companies. Sure, make them respect anti-trust regulations, that's all nice and fine, but to be as deft as to split them up because they're building a cohesive platform/product? That's being short-sighted and idiotic in my book.
Posted December 27, 2012
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Red_Avatar: I think there's a lot of misinformation in this topic, to be honest, and people having wrong priorities.

Yes, companies selling our info are bad - and they nearly all do it. However, you're NOT forced to use Google+ to use Youtube - that's a blatant lie. You can opt out and that's what I did. I Don't have Google+ and can use Youtube just fine and even comment.
Really? How do you comment on YouTube without a Google+ account? I couldn't do it. Everytime I tried to comment, a window popped up prompting me to open a Google+ account. I can view videos just fine, but I just can't comment or post anything.

If you still have an old YouTube account, you will be forced to upgrade to the "new and improved" linked YouTube account by December 31. After December 31, everyone will be "upgraded" to the new account, and Google+ will be required.

(I "upgraded" earlier and was forced to set up a Google+ two weeks ago and found out it sucked. Once I closed my Google+ account, my YouTube access was immediately restricted; everytime I tried to do anything, Google/YouTube immediately popped up a message telling me that I had to set up/open a Google+ profile to gain full access. I could still watched video, but I certainly could not leave any comment.)

Post a walkthrough and tell us how you were able to comment on YouTube without a Google+ account.
Post edited December 27, 2012 by ktchong
Posted December 27, 2012
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hedwards: Well, sort of, they were bundling a version of IE that was deliberately incompatible with Netscape
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AndrewC: This is the first time I'm hearing something like this. Incompatible how exactly?
This was during the period when Netscape and MS were battling to control the browser market. In those days Netscape Navigator was a pay product. Anyways, both Netscape and MS were deliberately introducing new tags that were not from any official standards body. For the most part, they weren't useful things, but some sites would not look correct if you used the wrong browser. You'd usually see a note Designed for X at the bottom of the page.

As I mentioned, but Netscape and MS were guilty of it, the main difference was that IE was bundled with the most prevalent OS which meant that by default sites that were written for IE would work and ones written for Netscape may or may not work.

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hedwards: But,, it's really a moot point as MS really should have been broken up at the time just as Google should be broken up now, there's just a lack of political will to actually enforce the law when it comes to large corporations.
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AndrewC: I completely disagree in regards to breaking up companies. Sure, make them respect anti-trust regulations, that's all nice and fine, but to be as deft as to split them up because they're building a cohesive platform/product? That's being short-sighted and idiotic in my book.
No, you split Google up because they illegally purchased Doubleclick. MS would have been split by divisions. They would have been prevented from also writing office suites and hardware. Those would have been separate divisions.

Ultimately, they were using those divisions to force people to buy their OS, which is completely illegal. They also had a cartel going with Intel. Remember those hideous "Designed for Windows 95" modems? They were exactly the same as a normal modem, except with a few chips being removed and emulated by software. For this crippling of functionality, they would require people to pay a premium. Literally charging more for less.

That's ultimately why they should have been split, had they been just expanding into a new market legitimately, that would have been a different matter. Apple was fine expanding into MP3 players and phones, where Apple should have gotten in trouble was refusing to license their DRM scheme to other stores.
Posted December 27, 2012
I'm surprised the thread title hasn't been changed :D
Posted December 27, 2012
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Alfie3000: I'm surprised the thread title hasn't been changed :D
"Google is passing me off" perhaps?
Posted December 27, 2012
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Alfie3000: I'm surprised the thread title hasn't been changed :D
I guess the mods are sleeping, care to dump a bucket of cold water on them? XD

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Alfie3000: I'm surprised the thread title hasn't been changed :D
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jefequeso: "Google is passing me off" perhaps?
How about "Google is parsing me off"?
Post edited December 27, 2012 by Thunderstone
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)Google is pissing me off(109 posts)(109 posts)
(109 posts)