I don't usually look at hints or walkthroughs for puzzle games, but I always use those for RPG. Just can't stand missing some hidden bonus or accidentally running into bad outcomes.

I'm always annoyed whenever RPGs make it possible to gimp your character(s) such that you have to read a guide to figure out how you should configure your character. Sure, make me figure out how to use a given build, but don't punish me for making "bad" builds.

Edit: Echoing PandaLiang, I'm always on the lookout for bad outcomes too. I like branching paths as much as the next RPG fan, but not when some of those paths are objectively bad. In The Witcher, choosing between the knights and the elves was interesting. Screwing up the investigation in Chapter 2, especially after you know how to screw it up, is not interesting unless you haven't seen the failure scenes or you're explicitly role playing a jackass.

I can relate to the OP's experience but I'm of two minds whether it's actually bad or good. I think that depends on the various reasons for this development and how you judge them. I think most have been mentioned already:

- Back in the days we had less games to play, so we probably didn't mind spending a lot of time on a single one of them, even if it meant wasting hours on pointless stuff like searching all rooms thrice, trying all possible object combinations no matter how absurd etc.

- Back in the days we didn't have walkthroughs for every game on the internet, maybe not even access to the internet, so we had no other choice but to put up with the frustration and overcome all obstacles themselves, regardless of how much time was lost on it. That made eventual success more rewarding, but it came at a price.

- Back in the days we were young and assumably had much more time on our hands, so wasting time trying to figure out all by ourselves (whether you consider it fun or frustration) was less of a problem.

- Some of us used to play these games together with their friends, which somehow decreased the frustration of getting stuck a little bit. If one didn't know what to do anymore, the other(s) would suggest things to try or take over while the first player could take a rest. Or someone would play around a bit on their own and then, the next day or so, they'd triumphantly tell their friend(s) they finally managed to solved the puzzle and they would then continue together again. I know some of you still play adventure games that way even today, e.g. with your wife or girlfriend, you lucky bastards. ;) But for those of us who don't, it's harder to bear the frustration when we can't share it.

- We can't quite deny it, modern times and use of media might have made us more impatient, too.

- Oh, and in case you were wondering, yeah, that "we" was actually majestic plural and does not include you. :P


Anyway, some point and click adventures really have poor puzzle design. Either you know exactly what to do and for some reason it doesn't work and the game doesn't tell you why, or you have absolutely no clue because the solution is so obscure you'd never have thought of it, or you missed a tiny hotspot in your pixel hunt and have no chance to solve the puzzle unless you somehow learn about that hotspot/item. When I have to resort to a walkthrough, more often than not it's because of the latter, but the other varieties are a real pain, too.

I think the better ones are those that offer you several puzzles at the same time. You get stuck on one end, but can still explore the other and while you keep on playing you might get new ideas for the spot you got stuck in. If one unsolved puzzle is completely blocking your progress already, I'd probably consider that bad game design.

As for RPGs, it's a tricky situation. On the one hand I'm a bit of a completionist and - sacrilege! - I don't like to replay RPGs, so I try to get the most of my one and only playthrough. On the other hand I prefer to explore and discover everything myself, without spoilers. So if I somehow get wind of the fact that I'm missing out on lots of cool stuff that I had slim chances of discovering myself and I feel compelled to consult a FAQ, that can partly spoil my enjoyment of the game. Unfortunately (for me), most RPGs pride themselves with such secrets and with the fact that you have to replay them in order to see everything and I guess it's part of what a lot of (if not most) RPG fans actually expect. :(

Not to get into silly conspiracy theories or anything, but um, I think it's a silly conspiracy:

A lot of games these days are designed so that the majority of people who play them will need to search for guides and walk throughs to be able to finish them, thereby increasing search results and web traffic relating to the game. It's like a really convoluted form of SEO.

Good points. And you weren't necessarily trying to figure out the games alone, I remember sharing hints and tips about games with friends, brothers etc. I remember sharing a lot of tips back and forth with a good friend of mine. He was the one tipping me out in e.g. Dungeon Master that I had missed a secret room with a compass in the beginning levels, which would have made navigation in the dungeons so much easier. I remember we discussed a lot also about Elite (on Amiga), ie. what we had encountered and where.

I also remember my big brother constantly tipping me out when I was trying to figure out the first King's Quest game as a small kid. A cave with a dragon, srsly?

Kinda miss those times. But only kinda.

Well I can see the old Sierra-era games being difficult and placing you in many unwinnable situations as a way of getting you to call their help lines. Not sure how likely your little conspiracy is though.

I do not miss Sierra adventure games. I mean, they were fun at the time, sorta, but only because we (as gamers) didn't know any better.

Seriously, the time in one of the King's Quest games where I had to restart the entire thing because I ate the wrong food item when I was starving? That was just awful. OBVIOUSLY you shouldn't eat the pie when you're starving to death, you should save the pie to throw at the yeti hours and hours from now! It's the only reasonable conclusion!

I also remember some of the Sierra devs MOCKING the Lucasarts adventure games, because the Lucasarts devs didn't think making the game unwinnable on purpose was good design.

Uhm i think you are right on this one that some games were a pain getting any progress that i couldnt get any futher and putting away the game because of that i had that with might and magic wich i recently finished 4.
I think it was a marketing trick you sell you guides or using there hotline.