So has anyone heard from Cheese yet?

I'm still waiting to see his big news post on this matter.

I hate pirates. I abhor IP shakedowns. That's as much as I have to say about this.

OK, I'll revise my statement. I do have something more to say. While I find this tactic unhealthy for the company's image, I'm not asking every employee to take the fall. This is strictly a matter that should befall the general management and the law firm for their exemplary execution of double moral standards. The guys in the trenches - that is everyone else on the company payroll are completely off the hook as far as I'm concerned. So to you, keep up the good work. Unless you're a gremlin that is. Or a Nazi. Fuck you then.

I don't buy stuff from pirates. I buy stuff from companies that order IP shakedowns. This is the first time I'm pissed off at Red Projekt and they immediately screwed up in a BIG way. Any company that supports such mafia practics don't get my support so my conscience makes me no longer want to buy any GOG games.

Confiscating someone's property is a serious matter. It wouldn't happen over a mere copyright dispute—especially if their best argument is not believing the validity of a receipt they issued themselves even though they are perfectly capable of verifying the transaction from their own records but just didn't bother to do so.

But I have to wonder; in countries where such strong-arming does work, why would the defendant not simply subpoena the publisher's computers?

There aren't any easy answers, are there?


True enough, I wouldn't own the band. But that song I liked, it's now stuck in my head. Do I just ignore it and pretend I never heard it so it doesn't influence anything I do?

I don't agree with eternal ownership, at least in the case of IP. It would be paralyzing. There would be no way to know who the first person was that made an audio rhythm that was pleasing to the listener. From there, who made all the different variations? What if someone thought of it first but didn't know how to mechanically use their body to create the sound?

Well, this might be the problem for me. I think of ideas and the thoughts going through my head like I do sunlight and fresh air. It's the physical manifestation of ideas that I think of as scarce.

No worries. I do too. It's the darn internet's fault!

copyright is a Civil matter it's up to you as a defendant to prove yourself unlike criminal where it's innocent until proven guilty. Your other problem is you have to show a reason to subpoena the publishers computers in their case they have subpoenaed your computer related hardware in order to show that the IP addy etc is yours on the dates they provided etc etc. They already subpoenaed your ISP to get the address linked to the IP at the time to send you the letter so they have that to verify... you on the otherhand have no real reason to request their computers "I request full access to their systems so I can prove they faked my IP in their log!" not gonna happen at most you would get access to see how the addy was collected.
Also the hardware isn't confiscated it's taken for study and will be returned once the evidence is (dis)proven but like I said that could take months years even hell theres a case still in the courts after 10 years where the hardware still hasn't been returned as it goes from test company to test company.

So, in the UK, a publisher can subpoena hardware to verify a suspicion but a defendant can't subpoena hardware to defend him/herself? Shitty.

I don't think they can hope to find 3 million pirates and sue them all successfully. There are not enough lawyers in the world for that. So the article must be a complete hoax.

On the other hand, since it does not affect the legal customers who can get a DRM free version, I couldn't care less. Go on GOG and try your luck, but be careful to present waterproof proof!

Or it sends the signal to their customers that they will use the most despicable means to do that. Going after people with actual evidence is one thing. Using sleazy companies that make money by threatening and harassing people using "evidence" that has been proven to be very shady at best? Heck, I bought the game - if I had used a torrent to download just the crack, I could have gotten one of their extortion scam letters as well and guess what: they'd have called me a liar if I said I owned the game. For these assholes, proof doesn't matter. It's about scare tactics, intimidation and any company that affiliates and feeds these disgusting companies gets no more support from me.

This would be extremely disappointing if it's true. It's shown time and time again (just read some Ars Technica) that the law firms specializing in cases like these are basically running huge extortion rackets, preying on people who are ignorant or poor and who are not likely to fight them in court.

It's shady and unethical, and if it's true then CDP should be ashamed of themselves.

That's the most fundamental thing I've learned so far, yes.

I meant it on the consumer side. You buy a book/CD/movie/whatever, finish it in, let's say, a single day... and you give it to someone else. Assuming it won't deteriorate - more than a 1000 people can get through it within 3 years. If you buy 500 of them, you can cover a MILLION people throughout 6 years. Assuming we applied this to more than 1 thing, people would be going through content like crazy with a pitiful number of retail copies sold.
The above, as you can easily notice, is roughly how a library works and the problems with second-hand stuff...
So complex issues x_x...

Scarcity is irrelevant. What matters is property. If there are countless apples on nearby trees, you can have any one you'd like but NOT the one I'm holding in my hand. That's MINE - I've spotted it, reached for it and picked it.
If I've fleshed out a character, given him a name, a look, a mindset, memories and dreams... You can't just take him, transplant him and claim as your own. You can get inspired, model another after him, create a different setting, etc... Given enough effort, people can remark that he reminds him of X from Y but it will no longer be a carbon-copy...
Once again - effort. The line IS blurry but common sense usually prevails. It's as easy as distinguishing between fanfics and similar-yet-separate works of fiction.

Um - as has been said; thus far our only "proof" is a very suspect and bias source linked in the first post. Until we see actual examples of cases going to court and of the exact conditions and resolutions that take place we can't say for sure (its all just guesswork).

In the end if you are being taken to court over theft then chances are the costs are going to be higher than the cost of the unit you stole - because you've got the legal fees and the hunting fees to go in as well. In short you've costed the company money to find as well as having stolen a product licence from them - it all adds up and $1000 or so is probably not the worst they could sting you with if they wanted to.

However that is their blanket legal document statement - actual examples might be completely different as to what actually takes place.

In the end I think a lot of people (some pirates) are denouncing the company because they don't like the idea that they could get fined for doing something that they know is against the law, but isn't against their own moral code (because "they" are a special circumstance).

This is how the "business" works:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/05/far-cry-innocence.ars

There's plenty more on Ars, and if they're not "reputable" I don't know who is.

If it's proven that CDP is affiliated with scum like that, I'll have to rethink my opinion of the whole organization. I'm not going to take part in any of their christmas promotions until they make a public comment on the issue.

They can in the USA, Canada and a fair few other places but only 2 cases have ever got that far both in the US and both ended with stupidly high damages to the publishers