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lackoo1111: Why did he choosed Flatout ? Where did he get the GOG version ?

1) Because I bought it and want to check out some things, for a trainer.
2) I bought it. Simple. Not all reverse engineers are thieves. And they do have a hint of morality.
Like I said in the FlatOut thread, I overreacted, but still, I can understand the outrage of someone who's efforts have been stolen for commercial gain. It just violates scene principles: they are intended for scene purposes only for releases.
Post edited May 05, 2010 by mudlord
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mudlord: It just violates scene principles

LOL
Their whining is funny on too many levels.
The only interesting part of this news is that when gog fanboys claim that "gog makes huge efforts to let the game play on my system without", we have the proof that it's not thanks to huge effort, but thanks to already old solutions (scene crack, dosbox...). As much as I like gog, this platform is not the messiah of retro gaming. I'm a good customer (buying more games than I can actually play), but I can't bare younglings going crazy about gog's awesomeness for the wrong reasons. Gog gives us two things: legality and ease of access. I didn't need gog to use dosbox or to find a no-cd crack, but I'm glad I can download one single file to install the game wherever I want. And I'm also glad some of my money goes into an industry that gave me countless hours of fun.
We've all played some abandonware (by default) and we all know where to look if we want a no-cd crack. And truly, I'm really thankful that a crack scene exists. Not that I'm in favour of pirating games. But I can't count how many times I needed a no-cd to let a game play flawlessly on my system. So let's take this piece of news with some optimism. Cracks are finally used for what they've been created: make legitimate customers' life easier.
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lackoo1111: Why did he choosed Flatout ? Where did he get the GOG version ?
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mudlord: 1) Because I bought it and want to check out some things, for a trainer.
2) I bought it. Simple. Not all reverse engineers are thieves. And they do have a hint of morality.
Like I said in the FlatOut thread, I overreacted, but still, I can understand the outrage of someone who's efforts have been stolen for commercial gain. It just violates scene principles: they are intended for scene purposes only for releases.

Sceners have copyright issues too? Oh man.
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Ogg: The only interesting part of this news is that when gog fanboys claim that "gog makes huge efforts to let the game play on my system without", we have the proof that it's not thanks to huge effort, but thanks to already old solutions (scene crack, dosbox...). As much as I like gog, this platform is not the messiah of retro gaming. I'm a good customer (buying more games than I can actually play), but I can't bare younglings going crazy about gog's awesomeness for the wrong reasons. Gog gives us two things: legality and ease of access. I didn't need gog to use dosbox or to find a no-cd crack, but I'm glad I can download one single file to install the game wherever I want. And I'm also glad some of my money goes into an industry that gave me countless hours of fun.
We've all played some abandonware (by default) and we all know where to look if we want a no-cd crack. And truly, I'm really thankful that a crack scene exists. Not that I'm in favour of pirating games. But I can't count how many times I needed a no-cd to let a game play flawlessly on my system. So let's take this piece of news with some optimism. Cracks are finally used for what they've been created: make legitimate customers' life easier.

Exactly, that was my first issue. Its false advertising when they use old solutions. Really shows me how much "effort" is made at all :/
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Ogg: The only interesting part of this news is that when gog fanboys claim that "gog makes huge efforts to let the game play on my system without", we have the proof that it's not thanks to huge effort, but thanks to already old solutions (scene crack, dosbox...). As much as I like gog, this platform is not the messiah of retro gaming. I'm a good customer (buying more games than I can actually play), but I can't bare younglings going crazy about gog's awesomeness for the wrong reasons. Gog gives us two things: legality and ease of access. I didn't need gog to use dosbox or to find a no-cd crack, but I'm glad I can download one single file to install the game wherever I want. And I'm also glad some of my money goes into an industry that gave me countless hours of fun.
We've all played some abandonware (by default) and we all know where to look if we want a no-cd crack. And truly, I'm really thankful that a crack scene exists. Not that I'm in favour of pirating games. But I can't count how many times I needed a no-cd to let a game play flawlessly on my system. So let's take this piece of news with some optimism. Cracks are finally used for what they've been created: make legitimate customers' life easier.
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mudlord: Exactly, that was my first issue. Its false advertising when they use old solutions. Really shows me how much "effort" is made at all :/

It's not false advertising as the games are DRM-Free. The methods to make those games DRM-Free are irrelevant. Once again I will say this is a non-issue, these 'Scene' people are not going to be credited by any publisher when all the publisher has done is take their work which has enabled thousands of people to play their games free.
Okay, I get your point.
I shouldn't have brought up this issue in the first place if I knew I was going to be trolled to hell and back for a simple bit of curiosity for a game trainer.
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michaelleung: Sceners have copyright issues too? Oh man.

Its not a copyright issue, is a acknowledgment issue. But since GOG.com and other publishers will do that when Hell freezes over...
Its just I can understand the feeling if some person's hard work for a closed group is made public, and then used by a commercial entity.
Post edited May 05, 2010 by mudlord
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mudlord: Its just I can understand the feeling if some person's hard work for a closed group is made public, and then used by a commercial entity.

But... wait.. "hard work" making a game... for a closed group "Paying people" is made public "free"....The thing seems to be that if the "Scene" people were to stop making cracks which in turn would slow/stop major companies work from being taken for free ie stolen then the "Scene's" work would also be no longer stolen.........
Do not know if the "Scene" does old games or new... or whichever....but... if you understand the feeling of having your work taken, imagine how the publishers feel.....
4am. tired... so if that did not make complete sense my apologizes.. Not tryin to flame the issue... time to try and get more sleep
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mudlord: Its just I can understand the feeling if some person's hard work for a closed group is made public, and then used by a commercial entity.
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akwater: Do not know if the "Scene" does old games or new... or whichever....but... if you understand the feeling of having your work taken, imagine how the publishers feel.....

Well said, +1. The irony that sceners want credit from a site that is legitimately selling DRM-free games because they think that GOG is stealing the crack to make them DRM-free is not lost on me.
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mudlord: Its just I can understand the feeling if some person's hard work for a closed group is made public, and then used by a commercial entity.
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akwater: But... wait.. "hard work" making a game... for a closed group "Paying people" is made public "free"....The thing seems to be that if the "Scene" people were to stop making cracks which in turn would slow/stop major companies work from being taken for free ie stolen then the "Scene's" work would also be no longer stolen.........
Do not know if the "Scene" does old games or new... or whichever....but... if you understand the feeling of having your work taken, imagine how the publishers feel.....
4am. tired... so if that did not make complete sense my apologizes.. Not tryin to flame the issue... time to try and get more sleep

exactly. the hypocrisy of The Scene being upset because someone 'stole' their work is just ridiculous.
Furthermore:
When companies use your scene's cracks mudlord... isn't that acknowledgment? isn't that showing respect.
for me it says:
okay. these guys did a great job. really no point for us to try to repeat it.
and like i said before: They cannot thank you. they cannot even admit that they are using the cracks.
How would it look like?
"Hey. we are thankful for you for cracking our games. Great Job. So if anyone needs to crack our games in the future please use these guys' cracks. They are safe and excellent and they will certainly make sure our games work without drm which we implemented"
:D
It can't be said can it?
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mudlord: Its not a copyright issue, is a acknowledgment issue.

It's a legal issue. Providers of illegal code are not going to get any legal recognition of their code. They also have no rights to that code. If they don't like it, perhaps they should stop creating said illegal code.
Still, if the so called "scene" feel this strongly about it, perhaps they should launch a court case and then see how the legal system feels about their illegal endeavors.
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bansama: It's a legal issue. Providers of illegal code are not going to get any legal recognition of their code. They also have no rights to that code. If they don't like it, perhaps they should stop creating said illegal code.
Still, if the so called "scene" feel this strongly about it, perhaps they should launch a court case and then see how the legal system feels about their illegal endeavors.

The scene guys could always make a form of DRM so that their work is not used without their permission........
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akwater: But... wait.. "hard work" making a game... for a closed group "Paying people" is made public "free"....The thing seems to be that if the "Scene" people were to stop making cracks which in turn would slow/stop major companies work from being taken for free ie stolen then the "Scene's" work would also be no longer stolen.........

You obviously and most people don't understand how much effort goes into making a game DRM free without source code. You got to:
* Make your debugger cloaked
* Trace through miles of DRM code to get to the protector's OEP
* Unpack the executable from that point
* Reconstruct the file after unpacking so it all fits.
* Test it thoroughly.
That is hard work.
And then GOG shits on that and just releases the end result and then people parade that GOG went to "miles of effort" making games packaged. It seems then all the hard work getting it prepared is done by the warez group, when someone notices it and sees it from their eyes, they are shitted on too for being the messenger and then they are treated like scum because of even seeing both sides of the story. And the GOG fanboys all come in and troll the messenger to death!!!
I do NOT appreciate being trolled for being the messenger and seeing & understanding both sides of the story. I understand that the people responsible for fixed exe's have no leg to stand on, but shooting the messenger?
Sheesh! I had enough trying to reason nicely since all I get is nothing but trolling back. This will be the last time I post here since, whats the point of trying to purchase things and comment on the support forum when I get flamed for my views?
@akwater: but then that defeats the purpose. If its only useful for one scene group, then it will be nuked for being non working to the other sceners which are meant to have access only to it. Its when there is scum that release outside that circie, which is how piracy gets to BitTorrent. If it wasn't for the people who leak stuff, the cracks won't be for the general public.
Post edited May 05, 2010 by mudlord
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akwater: The scene guys could always make a form of DRM so that their work is not used without their permission........

And then a new "scene" could be formed to remove their DRM too. Oh the hilarity of it all!
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mudlord: You obviously and most people don't understand how much effort goes into making a game DRM free without source code. You got to:
* Make your debugger cloaked
* Trace through miles of DRM code to get to the protector's OEP
* Unpack the executable from that point
* Reconstruct the file after unpacking so it all fits.
* Test it thoroughly.
That is hard work.

Really was not trying to flame you.... I didnt understand how much hard work it took for people in the "scene" to crack games... I mean I've seen SkidRow, GeoHot, Klaxxon and others make comments that they want credit..... not to delete the NFO file etc... but.....
Generally speaking.... the hard work I do.... I want to be paid for... so.... i work at a legit job....so I earn legit pay...I mean... I dont want to be paid or get appreciation for my hobbies, because I do them for fun.
Do either way... i nuderstand, and as for not posting anymore that is your call....
Sometimes I can be an ass, and I apologize if i came across as a smart ass or offended you... it was not my intent.
Later...