Missed an s on console sorry D:

I know how GoG fights against DRM , and i would like to expand this and ask for a bit of help on consoles, Neogaf took the initiative but we need all the help we can get , at the end we all are gamers and DRM on consoles will affect the future of gaming.

The thread [url=]http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=568033[/url]

"The gist of it is that Sony is listening to the backlash that Microsoft is getting and they are basing decisions off of this. I would assume MS is also, but I don't know that for sure. But I can say, for sure, that the past week's PR nightmare for MS has not been lost on Sony and they, in fact, do have a used game 'solution' working and have been going back and forth for months on whether to use it. This past week is pushing them strongly into "Yeah, let's not use that."

Do you want to give them an extra push? It can't hurt. I've been told by lower level people in the company that tweeting to yosp specifically is quite effective as he likes to gauge what people are thinking. Will a couple hundred posts from neogaf change the entire industry? No. Can it help give a little more momentum to something sony seems to be leaning towards already? I would think so.

So, if you care....

Here's the entire list of sony folks I know of that either are in on the decisions or have the ears of people who are in on the decisions that are on twitter.

My biggest piece of advice is be respectful. They aren't likely to finish a tweet in all caps threatening them.

Shuhei Yoshida (president of worldwide studios) @yosp (easily the highest level person on twitter and quite accessible)

John Koller (head of hardware marketing) @jpkoller (dude has like 150 followers - heh)

Guy Longworth (senior vice president PlayStation Brand Marketing) @luckylongworth

Scott Rohde (PlayStation Software Product Development Head for Sony Worldwide Studios America) @rohdescott

Also couldn't hurt to let the ex-journos that work there like @nsuttner and @shanewatch know what you are thinking. But again, remember, respectful. I would assume any of these guys are used to getting flamed and just instantly disregard tweets that seem pissed off.

Update 1 (version 2):

#PS4NoDRM #PS4USEDGAMES are the hashtags being used".

I am sorry i didn't find any offtopic board , but i do know that GoG stands with the players.
Ty in advance :)

Uh... You do know that DRM-free and used games don't mix, and GOG has stated so on numerous occasions, right? If there's nothing preventing people from selling copies they don't actually own... there's nothing preventing people from selling copies they don't actually own. At least DRMd bootleg copies (illegal codes and such) are a scarce resource.

I think the reaction to the Xbone's and possibly PS4's DRM debacle is very encouraging. I just wish PC gamers had the balls to stand up to such treatment, but no, it's always "oh, it's necessary to support developers" etc. out of fear that if PC gamers rebel too much, their beloved publishers will abandon the platform.

Anyway, the situation as it stands and has been reported is this:

Xbox One: Mandatory Steam-like account binding for all games. Games are registered using a one-time serial key to a specific account. They can be played on different consoles, but the account needs to be in use on that console. Substantial fee likely to be necessary to transfer a used game to a new account. It's also been rumoured that used games may only be traded through authorised dealers.

PS4: Optional Steam-like account binding for games. Developers may apply discretion as to whether they choose to make use of this feature. Used-game trading system rumoured to be in place (the information about the PS4's system is from Kotaku, so take with a generous pinch of salt)

I suspect that the Xbox One DRM is what instigated the EA/MS partnership and what caused the Wii U's mysterious 'incompatibility' with the Frostbite engine. The reaction to the Xbox One is probably what caused them to suddenly announce that they are developing games for the platform after all.

The Wii U sales spike - which has now been confirmed by Nintendo itself as well as Amazon - is likely due to people awaiting the announcements of all three consoles. Whether the purchase spike was prompted by the Xbone's DRM is unknown, but it is highly likely, as there was no such spike when the PS4 was announced.

Hopefully CDPR will do the right thing and not release The Witcher 3 for the Xbox One. And I also hope that this situation will give more attention now to how much of a clusterfuck PC gaming has become over the past few years with Steam and Origin. We're talking about physical media here. The interest in gaining GOG's help is because they understand the need for DRM-free.

So while I agree one shouldn't necessarily mix the issue of DRM and used games, for physical games it is a little different than digitally distributed games and can come down to one's believe about the scope of DRM versus copy protection (not that I want to start THAT debate over again). For instance, the DRM being considered on the Xbox1 is targeting used games by effectively turning something physically distributed into something digitally distributed (tying a physical disc to a digital account). For physically distributed goods, a disc check can be used as copy protection which is most disc-based consoles games effectively have (they require the disc to be present) - plus the limited distribution mechanisms on consoles. However, that does not stop, one might even say it allows the sale of used games (for the reasons you mention). So this is kind of a case of DRM versus copy protection or two different DRM-schemes depending on your point of view. From the OP's perspective, the original consoles are DRM-free even if the discs have copy-protection. That's a distinction without a difference to some and a crucial difference to others. I fall into the latter category, but I understand the former.

EDIT: ninja'd rather pithily by jamyskis :)

Why even bother? Just join the PC Master Race and let the console market burn.

Yes. Out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Why exactly do you think Microsoft thought they could get away with this in the first place? Because PC gamers are too fucking soft, that's why.

Not going to take part in this nonsense, but I"m here to ask: How do people want gaming to evolve if they constantly buy used games out of their pure greed? They're just like EA , greedy over 5 bucks , and then they complain they have to pay 10 extra bucks for an online pass. I'm not pro DRM , but I do not support this incentive either. Gaming was OK with used sales when games didn't cost so much money and effort to be created. The wheels have turned. Games now have budgets of hundreds of millions of dollars ,and publishers and devs have something against used sales. Devs like CDPR are a rare sight in gaming , but they don't make the biggest profit either.
Another problem are pirates and people who do not even pay for the games they play, but this is a topic for another time , though there are some similarities between those 2. Paying for a used copy means all the money goes to the third party seller , meaning this slows the circulation of new copies due tot he low demand , and so the publisher gets less money. Used sales do not have a direct impact on the devs , but they can have on future titles from them.

Huh? Don't you mean console gamers are soft? Microsoft has a distribution platform on PC, it's called Games for Windows Live, and it's an utter failure and everyone hates it.

sigh ... for one thing, it is not clear that a used games market hurts devs or publisher one iota, in fact things might work out in their favor. For instance, do the publishers get more money if one person buys a game at full retail price and sells the game to someone else at 50% off, or if two people wait to buy the game at 50% off the sale price?

Kind of results in the same amount of money doesn't it? Frankly, there is no evidence that the used game market hurts the bottom-line. The way publishers count "losses" from the used games market is very myopic. They assume every bought copy of a used game was money that could've gone to them instead of also questioning how many people would not have bought the game at full price if they couldn't recoup some of their investment by selling/trading with someone else or with a retail store.

Used games actually can increase first-sale of games at full retail price and result in greater amount of money going into the hands of publishers. Even if it works out to be the same or less (unlikely, but if true only slightly less), right of resale is an important consumer right to balance out the power differential between companies and consumers, especially when dealing with copyrighted material for which the company has exclusive rights to sell. What he means is that Microsoft, Steam, etc ... already effectively won on the PC. A huge number of people buy games on Steam or other digital distribution platforms with DRM that also don't allow used games. That's why Microsoft assumed they could do the same for consoles. That Microsoft's own digital distribution platform never took off is immaterial, Steam shows that the PC master race will accept both DRM and no-used games. Even a lot of physical games use Steamworks. That why jamyskis called PC users soft.

Indeed.

The short of it is that if you refuse to buy the Xbox One due to its online DRM, PC gaming isn't going to do the job any better.

That's a very flawed logic. If you had read my post , you would've realised that used sales do not have a direct impact on devs , but they do on publishers.Why? Well , for one your result was bad. It doesn't matter if the same ammount of money is paid for the game(s) , the idea is the second example is the good one , because this way more copies will be in circulation , this leading to third party sellers to order more new copies from the publisher and so they get more money. The third party seller is always in profit anyway , whether there are a handful of people who buy at 50% off even new or not , the first week sales bring them enough profit. But we're not talking about 3rd party seller , but about devs and publishers.

You DO know that consoles ARE DRM, right?
You're "don't block used games" line, ok, fair enough, but "please no DRM", what?

Any one want to help me dust off my old NES and get it hooked up? I think that should help the cause. :D

my logic is fine, in fact it is pristine. I was using devs and publishers to also account for indie devs who self-publish. what? no they aren't. If that were true, all the third-party sellers would never have gone under in the 00's. Your contention is (which only works for big box, not digital or even commission) is that we should all buy our own copies so that physical retailers have to over-purchase discs from the publisher so they can make more money on games never sold to a consumer? That's an incredibly odd argument to make that publishers deserve to make more money on unsold games. That's not even ... accurate. Because when a big box retailer puts the 50% off on a game that's because they are clearing inventory. You aren't supporting the game publisher by buying at retail at 50%+ sale prices, only the retailer is being supported at that point.

For used games, X games are sold and there are only ever X owners at any one time. Those people who bought the used games encourage people to buy first-sale games at higher prices and not waiting until the big box retailer clears inventory (i.e. not buying any more copies from the publisher) and puts the 50%+ sales on. That puts more money into the hands of publishers and more copies into circulation than those consumers simply waiting for massive sales at retailers before buying. In fact the existence of the used game market actually encourages retailers to overstock more than not because they encourage a lot of people to buy at higher prices, earlier than they otherwise would have.

It depends if you include all copy-protection as DRM. Many don't. The current-gen of consoles do not require an internet connection or manage your physically-bought games through internet management of a digital account.