Exactly. Now you know why its such a bum role to get - cheers MOD!.

I'm not trying to hide anything - I'm doing the exact opposite. Yes, I'll turn up guilty if investigated, but thats because I'm the Town Miller.

Yes I can by definition of the role have no other proof than my word - you either believe me or you dont. But like i said before - don't you think its a risky move for me to make, if I was Mafia?? No pressure on me, no suspicions. I'm making the ONLY play I can make with this crappy role to try and help the town - that is declare early.

@Orryrro - thats PRECISELY the reason I claimed when I did - if I had claimed when I was under pressure, what chance then of being believed??

Whats interesting to me is the people now attacking me - theres players out there KNOW I'm telling the truth, because they're Mafia - who's had a nibble so far?.....

Rodzaju - chasing like a dog after a bone. If you believe me, then he looks extremely suspicious.

Orryrro - skewed logic. If I'm telling the truth, it was imperative I claimed when i had no pressure on me. Again, suspicious.

QuadrAlien - again, faulty logic - the plusses for town with me claiming outweigh the reveal of a cop role, which is pretty much in every game anyway.

Everyone town - ask yourself, what would you have done in my position? Given the role of Town Miller, what would be your best course of action? If anyone can come up with a better action than the one I've taken I'll eat my Millers hat!

And if you're considering I might be Mafia - again, think about it - claiming 'yup, I'll be guilty if you investigate me!', when I was under no pressure, in fact no-one had any pressure. Highly risky ploy for a Mafia player dont'cha think? Surely A mafia player especially at this early stage with everyone still alive, would just lay low and hope not to be investigated? Much better odds.

That's an interesting gambit if you're Mafia. Remains to be seen of course, but for now you've put this humongous spotlight on you.

I hope you realise that even if town, a claimed miller can't survive till lylo; at some point you will have to be (preferably) vigged, if town has one, so we don't waste a lynch on you either, but the risk is too big for you to reach endgame.

I disagree that this is a bad move - I think it is actually a pro-town move by a town miller IF he is a miller, because not only does he out himself early to give the rest of town more info - specifically, whether he is town or mafia, he's letting the cop know he will investigate as guilty and proceed from there.

It's a pro-town move because say the "other" scenario is a miller keeping quiet, plays normally etc, but then he gets investigated by the cop and is found guilty, and the cop breadcrumbs it (first letter of every sentence or whatever) at the start of the next day. And then the cop dies and flips town cop. So people look back on the cop's text, find the breadcrumb and conclude he's guilty, and lynch him because he's a guaranteed Mafia because "after all, a miller's an easy claim to make after he's been found guilty". And then town loses because of that.

This way, being upfront about it, a true miller is signing his own delayed death warrant (even if town, he SHOULD NOT reach endgame if the game goes on that long on the chance that he is a gambitting Mafia) but trying to clear the waters a bit in the meantime.

@Rob However, if you are town, try to prove it by offering a lot of reads on people whenever possible. Does anyone strike you as scummy at the moment? (Besides who I'm going to attack below, if applicable!)




Orryyrro is scum for real this game, because:

- His current vote is an RVS one (on ViolatorX), yet he gives real reasons for suspicion against Robb, in the post just above mine (#60), yet he FoS's him???? FoSing is extremely scummy play except when you have a real vote on someone else already, so you're trying to broadcast your "second scummiest" target; or if the person is close to lynch already but you want some other input from them/someone else. Neither is the case here.

Unprovoked FoS's (see Red_Baron in GM4, since he's dead now) with no proper votes, when you actually list legit reasons for doing so, are fairly strong scumtells because they're basically saying "I suspect you, but I don't want to offend you, so I'll kiiiinda accuse you without reeeeeally accusing you since I know for sure you're town and I'll look bad on your wagon."

- Also, this post is scummy:
Because it's calling on others to come up with more scumhunting theories, instead of doing some scumhunting himself. Granted it is likely partly tongue in cheek at the joke theory put forth, but still, I get scummy sense of humour rather than townie sense of humour from it.


Vote Orryyrro

Yep, lots of ice up here to bury bodies under. :)

@ Jesskitten -

Its a bit early for proper reads, but both Rodjazu and Orryrro have jumped straight in on me with both feet, which you would do if you were Mafia, because you would know I'm telling the truth. Im currently reading both of them as Mafia

Not liking that 2 players havent posted yet, but its been mentioned already that failure to post can be seen as scummy, and that didnt prompt them to either, so cant read too much into it at moment.

everyone else - 1st day RVS BS really - nothing stands out thats not jokey.

Vote nmillar

Am I doing it right?

Gotcha. You posted about what I was hoping to see in the post that came in while I was typing that up anyway. :P

Apart from not explaining yourself as to why you want to vote for nmillar, yes!

Welcome - but you do realise voting without explanation can also be seen to be a scummy act....;o)

nmillar was the first post in the thread that's not Basilisk.

@ ROB & JESS:

I made an early claim in #4.
Everyone jumped on this as obviously scummy behaviour.

Rob makes an early claim here.
I see this as scummy behaviour.

What's the difference?

Welcome. Looks good. RVS (random vote stage) vote I take it then.

What do you think of Rob's miller claim?



PS, For the players for whom this is their first game, if you need explanations on the abbreviations (like RVS) or terms/roles (like Miller), do let us know - or better yet, check the wiki at http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php

I think Rob's claim is suspicious. But meta-suspicious. Like he's probably a liar or some sort of prankster archetype, just looking to confuse.

Maybe he should be lynched anyway. Just to be sure.

Because Mine is done for a specific reason - its the only defence i have, and the only way my role can be beneficial to town. Get it out there early, use it and reaction to it to ferret out potential Mafia. Your early claim in #4 had none of those plusses to it, except perhaps to start discussion.

RVS = Random Voting Stage
FoS = Finger of Suspicion - used to let people know you suspect someone , but not voting to stop quick mis-lynches.
Bandwagonning. Voting on a player just because everyone else is.
OMGUS = Oh My God You Suck. Usually used if someone is extra crass eg voted for some one for the sole reason that they voted for you.
WIFOM - Wine In Front Of Me -using an argument to prove a theory, when the same argument can be used to prove the exact opposite also. A LOT of early Mafia play is WIFOM

I was of the impression a FoS was to point at someone you had evidence against, but not enough evidence to vote against. An unprovoked claim is evidence. Though, now that I think about it, wonderland probably has a jester, as it's, you know, wonderland.

I don't find your vote particularly scummy yet (though worth keeping an eye on, but what isn't?), nor his claim scummy, and no comment on that other game since you're still alive. :P I'm not painting Orry as scum because of his opinion, but rather because he didn't vote to back it up when he didn't have a good reason not to do so. It's the wishy-washy trying to play nice with everyone to avoid suspicion and attention scumtell.