I wasn't the first one to suggest my lynching. Nor the second.

All I did was do what everyone else was doing. I made a vote for stupid reasons. And people jumped on me. I, personally, think they're bluffing. But I'd like to find out.

Because such self destructive behavior doesn't not help the town at all, and the mafia wouldn't do something like this because the risk of having their bluff called and losing a member is pretty high. Of course, I could be wrong.

Giving a Taleroth lynch more thought. If he's a jester, then we get a 3rd party out of the way that's just going to serve to be a distraction. If he's Mafia, then we've removed scum. With his play, I can't imagine he's town because he's feeding fuel to the fire and it feels like he's trying to get himself lynched. That's not going to help the town at all because everyone who votes for something like that has an airtight reason.

Vote Taleroth I see no real reason not to leave this on him now after thinking about it.

I was told that it was a good idea to lynch on the first day. I make a suggestion and I get jumped on.

It seems... odd to me. That with so many people making stupid votes, my stupid vote gets singled out. So I decided to push back. Call a bluff.

People talking about getting data from voting trends and reactions, here's your voting trends and reactions. If the town can't make use of all the data about people voting against me, unvoting against me, reacting to me, then they can't get data as they claim.

Heck, I think I have data now watching those reactions. Maybe it's as weak as everyone else's. And I don't think anyone will trust it. So maybe, I can find a way to use it. Can I get people to trust me as a sacrifice? It seems a nice idea. There's a certain romance to it. And the logic is vaguely sound. Mafia wouldn't do it. Jester or whatever would have no reason to lie, since they already won. And a townie... well, they'd be trustworthy out of hand.

So either things can stand to be simpler. I like Rodzaju's interactions. Fenex, if I'm spelling that right, he also has reasonable posts. Or if people enjoy the chaos of random accusations and provocations, of overreading into every random post and calling everyone scum, maybe they can get what they want instead.

I'd prefer the former, personally.

(tries to be a bit more calm again)

I feel at this point for your I should try (yes, I know, another beginner of all people) to explain why I think claiming is done - once you're close to being lynched, if you're town it would be more use to have you willingly give up your character and role to us, as by that stage it's quite possible that without this information the combination of Mafia members and confused town players voting against you will simply complete the lynch against you.

Once you are lynched, the Mafia will get this information on you anyway (as it is displayed to all of us), and that's one Town player out of the way and straight into the Night phase for another murder. This is not good for Town players at all, not least those who have just been murdered.

It's the same reason not many people are exactly keen to vote for Robbeasy - if he is indeed telling the truth, then being alive and on the side of the Town is still more use to the Town than his corpse.

So I urge you - if you are indeed Town, don't throw your life away so easily.

If I voted that would take you one away and that would seal your own fate if your true to your word

I would like to hear your claim as this self-distruction seems very deliberate

I don't follow. The mafia will get it anyway, yes. But the town has no reason to trust it. If I said Town Vanilla, would you trust that claim? Maybe I am the Jester. If the town is unwilling to take chances either way, they will fail. You tell me not to throw away my life while holding a vote against me. I enjoy the irony.

Are you willing to trust me?

I'd like to hear a good explanation of why you keep pushing out such anti-town behavior and what the town gains out of it. Any data that we get, can be pushed off by pointing out your obvious scummish and suicidal behavior. It's hard to give a good solid read.

Myself I'm flipflopping a bit here because I was burned from popinjay in game 4, even though I was certain that his behavior didn't benefit the town at all. It dominates conversations and we have issues getting any serious discussion done because of it.

Things can be simpler, but when you go back and forth and pretty much say 'hey, I want to be lynched', then we're stuck in a complex web of WIFOM. I'll poke my head at Rob's claim shortly because I'd like to put my two cents into everything else. But for now my vote is staying until I can be convinced.

You're the one who started this. You are one of the last people I have any interest of justifying anything to. The extent of my "anti-town" behavior was not reacting the way you expected when you voted me.

Hmm... questioning me as I try to save you. We might be getting somewhere here.

Unvote Teleroth

I still don't like your continued suggestion of the Jester, but then I suppose that it makes the interesting point that it's one lynch target even the Mafia can't account for in advance.

Pardon me for interrupting your questioning of TwilightBard, but if I may backtrack slightly further, you quoted one person in particular whose ideas you were following when this whole sorry mess began, and yet now seems to have distanced himself from the remarks in his recent summing up of the situation in post #164. I feel we should see what he has to say for himself.

Vote Rodzaju

Following my ideas?
I was simply explaining why nolynch is a bad idea.

But as for my ideas...

I'm reading a lot of "I can't be bad because this is a stupid thing for a bad guy to do".

1) I don't hold the monopoly on stupidity.
2) This is a very WIFOM defence.
3) You can be a bad guy specifically because this is a dumb move for a bad guy. Nice way to deflect suspicion...

1) I should hope not.
2) Of course it is, but it's the only one I've got.
3) You believe me or you don't. I'm a bad guy, or I'm not. It's exactly the same for the other 11 players!

If you think you can learn more by lynching me to find the truth, then looking back at peoples reactions to me once you know, then go for it. But I'm trying to scumhunt here - all you're doing is going back to the same old point again and again....

Funny, I don't recall ever asking him to claim.
Nor have I voted him toward that point.
So why would try to give the impression that I have?

An interesting point to contemplate that I'm not quite sure what to make of - if we disregard Taleroth's statement of "going to use his vote to kill himself" from the moment he removed his actual vote on himself, I don't think he's ever actually been at L-2.

My bad. I got it messed up. You did in the other game, this time it was Typhoon,who posted right before you and it somehow got mixed in my mind.

He didn't? I based it on statement that he's two from lynch. But recounting shows you are right, he was L-2 only short time between Typhoon's vote on him and Taleroth's own unvoting. This quite changes part of my last post to invalid then.