I still don't understand the quick condemnation of GhostQlyph by a couple of people here. What would the mafia have gained from lynching Rodzaju over a random townie? I'm seriously starting to suspect nmillar. Yesterday I took my vote of Rodzaju in favour of further discussion and then Popinjay went all crazy and pretty much forced everyone to lynch him. Today however, vote Rodzaju and I'm sticking with it.

You're forgetting the less obvious consequences -- which I continuously state -- of lynching Rodzaju if he's being truthful. Namely: clarity.

We don't have an unaligned person (who has no benefit voting along town lines unless he gets his Elbaz lynch, if even then) mucking up the works. We have one less viewpoint from a very vocal person, meaning mislynches are that much less likely. We don't have to worry about whether or not he IS lying -- because even if he's not, we won't know until it's far too late. We don't have as many people to suspect as mafia, meaning they are slightly more obvious and significantly easier to narrow down. Most importantly, we know for a FACT we are not lynching town, meaning we "lose" as many as if we had voted nolynch -- a very acceptable lynch.

If he is lying, it's obvious that town gets a perfect-world lynch out of the gate.

Where can ANYONE see a drawback? Those who feel we shouldn't lynch Rodzaju, tell me what I have missed where Town loses out on anything at all by doing so.

Ok, I didn't see that, and anything I can argue relies on Rodzaju being truthful. Mainly that we can control him, if he's a lyncher and doesn't work with us then we can lynch him and he loses.

I am wondering though, do we have an SK or was that a vig getting lucky? If we have an SK we are down to about half our people tomorrow (Assuming both groups get off their kills.) Rodzaju might be the SK, or he might be Mafia...I'm not sure. This just worries me greatly right now, if the SK and the Mafia keep killing then the Mafia benefits unless we hit THEM.

Simple really if he has the ability to kill in w/e way it makes them a threat especially to mafia

General usual case winning conditions
Townies win when all factions are killed
Mafia win when they match town in size
SK/Other 3rd party role - Win either when everybody else is dead(sk) or with another faction(survivor etc)

I dont think rod is an SK for the record but heres why its important
Taking out a couple of the mafia makes it easier for an sk to achieve their win conditions as taking out all the town would cause the mafia to win before they can as they have seized the town... Ive seen a game before when an SK killed 2 of them and it helped him win as he claimed to be a 1shot vig to kill the second one, by the time the 3rd was lynched their and the NK there 3 left and player jumped on the vote once the vote had been made on one of the other 2 Otherwise this could happen.

Example being gog game 8 town 3 mafia 1 sk(12 person game)
Day 1 3 town die (lynch nk sk)
Day 2 3 town die (repeat)
Mafia would win as theres 2 town left SK would lose as he would be killed. so a game could end in 2 days

I dont trust rod either and have several reasons, but a singular person faction is less of a threat to us townies than the mafia. My main suspicion of rod was the way him and redbaron frequently posted one after the other, It could probably be purely coincedence but that was my only hint that he could be mafia.

With the death of red baron perhaps rod is an http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Usurper but I think hes more of a paranoid gun owner, and gets to kill anyone that targets him and after his day 1 performance someone was bound to take an interest to him.

(Refresh Edit: as GG always posts when im writing a message im tired and slow at typing)
Maybe im reading into ghosts gung-ho gameplay to much but it is common to have multiple lynchers and I believe she is either mafia or another lyncher with rod as a target.

Or you have both agreed he is a deadman walking during the night and you have further persecuted him to shroud any doubt people have that you are mafia, You jumped in when he had his head practically on the gallow on day one and a sacrifice like that could have protected you and baron one pro a person and one against a person is a common way to look less suspicious.

As it stands if its like the usual gog models theres 6/2/1 left if we lose 3 town we are in serious trouble of losing another game to the mafia

OK, quite a bit of activity since I last checked. I'll go through suspects later, but I do want to respond to a few comments. Obviously, the Popinjay thing went badly:

Twilight, I find this a bit ironic as you were hounding Popinjay almost more than Rod, using your vote to pressure him and suggesting others lay off Rod and focus on Popinjay. Many asked for a claim (including myself). Popinjay's bizarre comments not only demonstrated that he had no intention of claiming, but also made him seem quite scummy. As for your comment, he DID have ample opportunity to claim and refused. In that circumstance, I saw little point in delay.

Hindsight is 20/20, and as for the rest of your comment I again note the irony.

Another way of sowing suspicion without having to take the blame for a decision.

This:
And this:

make a lot of sense to me. More to come soon.

People seem to be forgetting another scenario. What if elbaz is mafia? Sure, the traditional lyncher / lynchee setup would make both Rodzaju and elbaz both town (which Rodzaju has already refuted), but we have Damnation as a moderator, so I'd be extremely surprised if he's gone the traditional route.

Another thing that occurs to me is discovering that Red_Baron is a microwave. Now I don't know about anyone else, but of all the household appliances I can think of, a microwave would seem one of the most likely to be a killer (i.e. 'nuking' someone). I suspect the other mafia members are in fact similar 'dangerous' appliances.

The fact that Vitek turned out to be a dishwasher would seem to support this theory, since he just cleans dishes (though it could be argued that he removes the evidence, but this isn't a 'killing' role).

elbaz claims to be a 'trash compactor'. Again, this seems like one of the more 'dangerous' household appliances, so I'm going to go right ahead and Vote elbaz. I hope Rodzaju is telling the truth.

I would just like to point out that Red's death put's paid to the theory that "I have to be mafia because I'm not plugged in".

IF there is meaning in names, surely this reinforces me as 'odd man out', as in 3rd party.

Is it common to have more than 1 3rd party in a game?
I don't have enough experience to know.
If so, my bet would be SK.
I would suggest that finding him is more important than lynching me.
If there is normally only 1 3rd party, then I'd say vig.
In that case, I'm not convinced I'll be here much longer, but it is important to highlight suspicous characters so that vig doesn't get town by mistake.

Okay, to clarify for those who seem to have missed it. Vitek was a bodyguard and killed the attacker (Red_Baron) of whoever he defended (unknown), sacrificing himself in the process.

I'm not entirely convinced
If that was the case, would the bodies not have been found together?

I agree with Rodzaju here, not entirely convinced either. Plus, I just noticed something else... when Vitek was found...'strange, he seems to be about one fourth his former size'......

Now what appliance could possibly change the size of something......trash COMPACTOR , anyone?

I've read back through the thread and have some thoughts:

1. Rodzaju- Despite the fact that he is bent on revenge and wants to unplug me (or worse) I think he is telling the truth. Like me, he's new to the game, and I find it unlikely that he has a deeper role than merely being a lyncher. The flavor text seems to indicate that he has a specific beef against me, so it would seem likely that I am his only target.

2. eyeball- He's made a moderate number of posts, but what is surprising when you read back through them is that he says very little of substance. It's certainly not proof of much, but conforms to a "post often- say little" approach that is sometimes a scum strategy,

3. Twilight- Reading back through, his play style is fairly consistent. He uses votes to push for information. Obviously, he got the Popinjay situation wrong, but so did many, including myself. My read through has made me less suspicious of him.

4. nmiller- OK, this is where my read through really changed my opinion. On post 73, he rejects drawing any conclusion from flavor connected to town/mafia being based on electrical/non-electrical. As we now know from Red Baron, this is indeed incorrect. However, in 412, suddenly flavor based on "dangerous" appliances is very applicable. How do we explain this change?

There is very possibly a slip on post 81, where nmiller wonders if appliance names could link players to power roles. This is quickly noted by Vitek in post 84, where he wonders if nmiller wants this information in order to lynch. nmiller replies by stating that, if they are mafia, then yes. A quick cover for a slip? Note that in post 109, Red Baron notes this slip and then rapidly dismisses it as harmless.


Both nmiller and Red Baron encouraged shifting the focus from Rodzaju, especially as he came closer to being lynched. Both rejected reading anything into electrical/non-electrical, specifically in connection to Rodzaju. In post 249, as Rodzaju approaches being lynched, nmiller shifts focus to Popinjay and is quickly followed by Red Baron. Why does this matter? Because I think that those who have mentioned that it is best for the mafia to keep Rodzaju alive are correct. It is much better from their perspective to keep Rodzaju as a random element that can confuse our hunt.

Finally, in post 142, nmiller argues that it is a common strategy of scum to stay out of the limelight. He certainly has not followed this strategy and has instead steered the conversation is several instances. His strategy seems to be one of pushing the topic of conversation in his own chosen direction. Not scummy in itself necessarily, but it does make a striking contrast into what he wants us to believe is typical scum behavior. Taken with my other points above, I find it very suspicious.

Right now, FoS=nmiller.

You've answered this yourself. I rejected the idea of drawing conclusions from electrical / non-electrical appliances, but am wondering whether conclusions can be drawn from 'dangerous' appliances. These are two separate things!

Not true. I encouraged people to take more time and investigate other options before going with a quick lynch. Unfortunately this backfired when Popinjay refused to co-operate with those asking questions of him, which made him look like mafia.

This is the second time you've cast your suspicions against someone who has voted for you! This does not in itself make you guilty, but it does seem very suspicious to me, which is why my vote is staying where it is.

The "Washing up" votecount

elbaz - 2 - Rodzaju, nmillar
GhostQlyph - 1 - ViolatorX
Rodzaju - 2 - GhostQlyph, eyeball226

A total of 5 votes.

elbaz and Rodzaju are tied to lynch at L-3.
Not voting are eyeball226, elbaz, andy433uk, Robbeasy, TwilightBard
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is 28th of May, 23:00 GMT+2.

I think people have raised some interesting points about elbaz so in interest of drawing a claim from him

vote elbaz