Forgot to include it to my previous post. Good point here. I don't believe it to be the case here though.

I actually thought there were only 4 votes on Rodzaju when I placed mine. I hadn't refreshed the page and so GhostQlyph's post hadn't shown up. Unvote Rodzaju for now in the interest of more discussion.

Okay, I'm not against more discussion. But Rodzaju is the one we should lynch right now because he's the one we are risking nothing and gaining at least SOMETHING by. Any other potential lynch has a lot more room for error, since I doubt anyone else will put their role out there truthfully if they aren't town.

Frankly, I see the RELUCTANCE to lynch Rodzaju as scummy. There is NOTHING to lose from it, and EVERYTHING to gain. Furthermore we'll have plenty of time to figure out who to lynch next on the next day, and if we push this one through and he flips scum (not perfectly likely but enough to be worth mentioning) that's two Mafia down. Going any other route is detrimental to town, because any more information we put out is just feeding the mafia and we have all the info we need to get a very safe, very easy lynch on day 1. There is nothing worse for town than putting off an obvious and safe lynch.

Lynch Rodzaju. There is no reason you should even hesitate.

Other than the opportunity for more discussion before committing ourselves to a lynch. We can still lynch Rodzaju before the day is over if no other obvious targets prevent themselves. You're being far too pushy about this.

Unvote Popinjay. Vote GhostQlyph.

Damn thats some nice thinking, a tad complicated - but I agree with the point your making about the favors that could be gained for the scums by getting rid of Rodzaju - assuming elbaz is a scum and the town thing is true. Also if we have the scenario I mentioned before with two lynchers, then it would also be in the scums interest to lynch Rodzaju, once again assuming that Rodzaju is speaking the truth and that elbaz is scum. I've seen hints of elbaz being a lyncher (the quick voting for him, just after pointing a finger, although in that case I can't quite figure out if Andy was in on that trick or if it was just all a coincidence - elbaz never replied to my humorous remark about it).

Wouldn't really go for an eyeball vote though, although I agree his vote came fast, it could also just be out of urge to get some info from the lynch - and I don't really see what we would gain from it. It might just have been me not looking carefully enough at eyeballs posts, but haven't gotten a scummy impression from him.

Some more info, perhaps from elbaz - even though your safe with the votes at the moment? You claimed you town, although we have yet to know if thats true, on the other hand we have Rodzaju who claimed and elbaz mostly verified. So in case of for instance Andy's post where he sums up some options, he assumes in all of them that Rodzaju is scum, without considering elbaz to have the possibility of being scum and ends by voting for Rodzaju - once again following elbaz. Again I might just be seeing a connection where there is none, but I keep thinking it every time I see it, due to the first time I got the idea. Also while I am at it, some of the voters, although I just noticed eyeball unvoted, should consider that elbaz might in fact be scum, then the entire scene changes. As lynching would mean losing a potential town, making a scum survive (and in case of two lynchers, fulfilling a scum win condition). All of it assuming that elbaz is scum and Rodzaju is truthful.

Hmm well, that ended in somewhat of a babble, hope you get the main idea - which is similar to Vitek's point about giving it some more thought.

So yea, a sum up my view:

Rodzaju: Believed to be neutral, If lynched can be either town (would be weird to lie about it, but one never knows), neutral or scum. In case of lynch: the first two options will result in town losing 1 (neutral = potential town) and in case of the last a scum is found and gone :)

elbaz: Either scum, town or neutral, claimed town, not proven. In case of lynch: if neutral = town loses nothing, if scum = town gains something, if town = town loses one. (As elbaz never claimed to become town in case of successful lynch).

Popinjay: Neutral, scum or town - Haven't claimed anything. If lynched: Town = Town loses one, Scum = Yea got one, Neutral = Well might be good depending on what kind he is, but most likely town loses nothing.

So if one trust what everyone have said, then lynching either elbaz or Popinjay, would be the statistical safest bet.. but thats also assuming that they are indeed all speaking the truth.

There is nothing to lose by waiting. Again, we can always come back and lynch Rodzaju before the day is over, he's a safe vote, an easy target.

I have questions about how Popinjay came out with a revenge vote, keeps pressing Rodzaju with that as a major part of his primary motivation. His third argument was that Vitek wouldn't softclaim, so there must be something wrong with Rodzaju for doing so. And he's always quiet, waiting for people to overlook what he says in favor of what is now the current bandwagon of the moment. In post 92 he claimed that he didn't know anything about town power roles and thought everyone was the same.

In post 162 he said this



Can you see now why I don't want to let that get away so easily? Why I feel that lynching Rodzaju now might be bad for town if someone like Popinjay is scum? Hell, I'm not even saying 'I want to lynch Popinjay not Rodzaju', I've been saying that I want an answer before we put the game into Night and he has extra time to come up with an answer without pressure and without others looking.

I find your pushes to be strange, we have NOTHING to lose by waiting a bit before lynching him. No one that's removed a vote or pressure from Rodzaju went with the idea that we weren't going to lynch him, we went with the idea that we have a chance to hunt more scum, and then come back and see what the better option is. I have to wonder why you're so against us taking that extra time and coming back to Rodzaju if need be in this.

It goes opposite way. He knew you are thrash compactor. In case he flips lyncher there is nothing more to dig from it. If he flips scum, though, you must be mafia as well, otherwise he wouldn't know your role.

So you concluded each of them is either town, neutral or scum and killing scum will be beneficial, killing town maleficient and killing neutral... neutral? :-P

Ah, right. I misunderstood Ghost's reasoning. However, I must point out that there is a mafia lyncher role: the hunter. In that case, would he know my name (trash compactor)?

Actually, a hunter could be both town or mafia, it's a town/mafia member with an extra Lyncher win condition added on.

Hmm yea true, because the point about having two options for Rodzaju being town would only make sense if he did indeed have the option of being town, but wouldn't make much sense for him to claim neutral then..

I believe I'll just go to sleep and wake up with a fresh mind.

This is the only way I'll support a hold-off on the Rodzaju lynch. It's reasonable to call people out on their inconsistencies early and often -- but we'd be foolish to not lynch Rodzaju on Day 1, while we have the biggest chance of mislynch due to numbers.

We know he's not with us and to be with us he'd have to kill someone else who likely is -- but there's nothing saying he's not lying. That one lynch could mean an early town win, and even if Rodzaju is being truthful it means we thin the ranks (making it easier to spot Mafia) with no risk. I cannot support any other lynch candidate on this particular day. Anyone we miss will be around on day 2, and we will definitely have the numbers to still clean them out.

Well, as I am procrastinating from real work and the thread is slow, I'll post a couple thoughts. Putting aside the whole Rodzaju thing for a moment, two other lines of conversation interest me.

Popinjay: Hasn't posted during the recent dust-up, and his previous posts have been pretty much focused on Rodzaju. I can't discern any evidence of him working with others, and his attacks on Rod seem to indicate a tit-for-tat strategy more than a purely scummy strategy. Knowing what we now know about Rod, I can't see a clear reason for a scum to go after him (Rod) as he is actually an asset to them at this stage (or perhaps was until he outed himself). That being said, he's done very little to alleviate concerns about his behavior.

Vitek: Seems dead set against nmiller, but hasn't provided much in the way of details other than a "bad feeling." I would like to know more about his suspicions.

Thrash compactor.......lol..;o)

elbaz - I think Viteks beef with nmillar is purely a joke one - nothing to be read into it....unless Vitek has other ideas?..

Im a bit suss at Popinjay for falling silent as well, but it may just be he's away from his computer. Still, got some heat, falls silent instead of defending - not a good sign that.

As for not lynching Rodzaju - my thinking is this. Yes, we can carry on investigating and questioning others, but EVERYTHING we hear is unknown - we have no way of knowing what is being said is true or not. The ONLY way to get that info is to Lynch, find out what role the lynchee had, then see what happens overnight and draw info from that. Everyone has agreed that Rodjazu is a 'safe' lynch - hes already claimed hes not Town.

Viteks point - that Mafia would want Rodzaju dead if he's telling the truth and elbaz is Mafia. Would they really want Rodzaju dead? Then we find out Immediately if he was telling the truth, and the heat truly gets turned on Elbaz - what Vitek is arguing they're trying to avoid!

Don't get me wrong - more discussion is always good. Its just that more discussion when we are in the possession of actual Facts, and not unproven theories, seems pointless. As has already been discussed, Rodzaju is a safe lynch. Nothing else is. My vote for Rodzaju Still stands.

Dead set against nmillar? I once said I think he is mafia, once said I have bad feeling about him and now we are agreeing on Rodzaju case. I wouldn't call it dead set.
More it seems you are trying to make something out of nothing.

On the other hand you are right about Popinjay. He haven't posted for 3 days and I would expect he has something to say about Rodzaju case. It could be RL getting into way but I think 3 days are could be enough to post. Seems like he is trying to let fuss abround him cool down by staying low.


Also, we have players nicknamed Rod and Rob in this game, quite difficult to distinguish when you all use it.

How would we find out elbaz identity? If Rodzaju is dead we will find he is lyncher not what alignment his lynchee is. And as they get rid of someone who wishes elbaz dead he will be no more target of lynch. Unless another reason occurs of course.