Maybe pazzer is town and threw the Mafia for a loop when he posted telling Ubivis to protect Typhoon. So I guess one possibility is they roleblocked Typhoon and planned to knocked off pazzer, however it didn't go through since pazzer was protected by Ubivis.

Course, if there is no Mafia roleblocker, then Typhoon could just be using it as an out. But why use it as an out? If you're going to lie, why not lie and say that a townie is really scum?

I'm more convinced towards Typhoon lying, for why would the mafia choose to roleblock Typhoon when planning to nk pazzer, even despite pazzer's post? Why not just roleblock Ubivis so there's a clear way of killing off pazzer without contest?

I think Typhoon claiming roleblock after two consecutive nights is the most suspicious action. I also think that pazzer's post requesting Ubivis to protect Typhoon is a bit fishy, if not scummy, but I'm convinced enough so far that he tells the truth.

The lack of a nightkill is weird, I think. But it is most likely the obvious case - the mafia targeted pazzer, and pazzer was protected.

In all, at the moment, I think Typhoon is our most likely candidate for being mafia.

vote Typhoon45

And there was me all along thinking it was 'Finger of Suspicion'...;o)

Noted MOD, and thankyou

This. I have absolutely no reason to lie in this situation, especially because it has already happened. What I find suspicious, however, is that people are jumping on this as an excuse to lynch.

About the lack of a night-kill... I don't know. I was going to tell the Doc to protect Pazzer, but when he sent the doctor after me I figured that there would be enough WIFOM to keep both of us alive for another night. (Which, evidently, there was).

About the flavor text: More of the same. Literally. A bit more detail on the being beat up, but getting gagged and falling unconscious was the same as before.

One more thing:

@ Robbeasy (I think it was you, I can't find the section right now) You prodded me to tell you the flavor text yesterday. How did you know that flavor text existed in this game? Or is that standard? Like I said, I don't play Mafia online all that much.

Nor do I! I think the MODS add 'flavour' text where they can , just to keep it interesting. Its a standard thing.

And - I don't think it was me who prodded you? Can't remember and can't be bothered to troll back through to find out at moment , tbh...;o) I'll have a look later tonight. I think I did comment that your description sounded genuine at the time, though.

Typhoon, I asked about flavour text today, pazzer yesterday I think. It's fairly common when the mod is posting flavour kill scenes as well, like Damuna has been doing. You can catch Mafia lying about that sometimes, or else figure out from some mods' flavour text, what kind of role (weapon, technique, style etc) the roleblocker is using, and thus who it is once everyone claims. Like if someone bundled you in oh.. the broom closet, then it may have more likely been a janitor type role, or if you got knocked over your head by a bunsen burner, and we find a chemistry teacher vanilla later, that could point to that person as the suspect etc. But since Damuna said the flavour text isn't related, then we should probably put that to rest.

Enterprise makes a great point, and wins a lot of town points, jumping right off my list of suspects, taking Typhoon part of the way with him. While there's a chance he could be mafia still, his reactions scream town, and I will not be on a Typhoon wagon today without some major slip.

I think people are very quick to jump onto the Typhoon wagon as well, and those of you that are truly town should stop trying to help Mafia push for a mislynch of one of our remaining power roles. Don't get swindled by them. Think about this:
1. Ubivis has survived two nights as a claimed doctor. He also was very wishy washy with his claim on the first night, as though tentatively trying to test the waters and see if anyone believes him, before he actually comes outright to say it on Day 2, and still wasn't killed after. What kind of Mafia doesn't kill the doc?

2. Typhoon claimed to be roleblocked on both those nights, when he actually could have claimed much safer things if we was Mafia.
> He could have claimed a null result (target didn't go anywhere) on a mafia buddy. Or claimed a harmless follow reuslt on them after organising that in their Quicktopic (if they have one now).
> He could have claimed Ubivis saw pazzer last night, as Ubivis had claimed his action before him.
> He could have claimed on the first night that he tracked Zchinque, who went nowhere (since he died).
All those would be unverifiable till much later. No, Typhoon is being quite honest here. He's not approaching this with a Mafia mindset. I believe he is town - but pazzer could check Typhoon tonight to be sure.

3. From all that, somehow some people are willing to ignore the big elephant in the room, and instead of asking why Ubivis has survived both nights, Rob puts a theory forward that maybe Mafia doesn't have a roleblocker, and Ubivis jumps on that to say why he wasn't roleblocked. I disagree. If Mafia had no roleblocker, they would ALL THE MORE want to kill the doctor, as they have only one option with regard to neutralising a player. And not killing the doctor would be playing Russian Roulette for no reason.

That. I think the reverse case, is far more likely, and I also think if Zchinque is still reading along he's rolling around in his character grave because this case of whodunnit is becoming painfully bizarre/obvious from an outsider's view. I wager the Mafia were going to roleblock Typhoon tonight and arranged to then try to get Typhoon mislynched, because townies already suspected him beforehand. If he were Mafia, more likely they would have arranged a fake result for him.

It's interesting how people just throw out Typhoon's claim of being blocked using the claim that there's no roleblocker. It makes absolutely perfect sense that there's a roleblocker to counter two town investigative roles, and it also makes sense if Ubivis is scum and Typhoon is town, that
a) They don't hit Ubivis because he's scum
b) They have two claimed power roles, not three, the cop and tracker, because they know Ubivis is lying. So they kill cop and block tracker.
c) Unclaimed doctor/whatever other protective role saved pazzer.

Far more sense than the no roleblocker, and Mafia goofed up, theory. Think about it. Ubivis has lived as a claimed doctor for two nights now. Look at the roster list. Are there enough inexperienced players on the list to be able to field 3 Mafia that would bypass killing the doctor?

nmillar's logic is interesting. If Ubivis was the doctor, and pazzer the cop, and Mafia didn't have a roleblocker, by far and away the "correct" move is to kill the doctor, as that's the top of the pyramid in terms of power roles as if they guess wrong, that's a "free" additional power role added back to the pool that Town has.

Also that last line is very worrying, and is exactly what Mafia would say to try to fish out the real doctor when they know their fake-claiming scumbuddy won't last under the scrutiny from day to day of "magically surviving". You would have had my original vote if pazzer did not claim you as town; as it is I believe there is a chance you are a Godfather regardless of what pazzer may have investigated, as all your play has screamed scummy scum scum the whole Day 3 with the support of Ubivis despite evidence to the contrary, and then leading the wagon on Typhoon based on a false argument and a theory that Ubivis is obviously pushing himself as it would save his skin. However - I can also see where your arguments are coming from if you firmly believe Ubivis is town and extrapolating from there, so benefit of doubt. I've laid my case out as to why he is not, and if you're town, I hope you follow along.

This, for example, makes perfect sense if Ubivis is scum, since there are only two power roles and thus they try to kill the stronger one while leaving the weaker. And thus the inaction on the "doctor" as well, it's fairly obvious he's not one. It's no reason to think Typhoon is lying.

Robb, I've had a town impression of your play all this time, though that line worries me somewhat, as well as your no-roleblocker hypothesis that Ubivis jumped on. I don't see how you or anyone town could think a doctor claiming under no pressure is ever a townie move. It's like putting a target on your back saying SHOOT ME NOW SCUM, which is precisely why Ubivis is scum - he has not been killed yet. Whoever the doctor is, pazzer is the logical protect anyway and that does not mean Ubivis is town by any stretch of the imagination. Real doctor, you should NOT claim under any circumstance unless you are at L-1. But you knew that already or you're one of the idlers.

Typhoon, the existence of a tracker role is often used to counteract a godfather, because someone still has to go around making the Mafia kills. I'm not saying who you should or shouldn't track, but consider my suspicions etc, or make your own call.

Pazzer, take another shot in the dark and see if you can hit scum from one of the suspected targets. I'm fairly sure Damnation is scum, and you can either investigate him or someone else as you think is better (as I'll probably be leading a lynchwagon on him tomorrow if they don't decide to kill me instead of one of the two power roles).

To Town:
I've already been investigated as town, by pazzer, who's been confirmed as town due to the no-kill. I'm going to vote Ubivis, and I ask that everyone votes along with me today. There's a ridiculously high percentage he's scum. If he is, and I don't survive the night, vote Damnation, and consider between Nazarush, and maybe nmillar, or Robbeasy, for your third Mafia. It's percentage play at this point and there are two power roles that are going to be killed/roleblocked every night, but one who will survive and be able to give a result if the doctor guesses right and protects him, and Mafia is just trying to pull wool down over your eyes and try to make you mislynch one of them.

Thank you very much!

Forgot the most important part of the post,
Vote Ubivis

Alright, that does makes sense (though your logic about Godfather could equally be applied to you). Perhaps I was influenced a little too much by Robb and Ubivis' earlier posts ...

Unvote Typhoon45. Vote Ubivis.

@Jesskitten - you know what I'm like with theories - i like to throw them out there and then watch other people show what an idiot I am as they pick em to pieces...;o)

You are making perfect sense. I went through all possible scenarios - the reason I went with Ubivis early on today is because I still have doubts of Typhoon way back from Day1. But, you are right, no way should Ubivis have survived two nights running.

vote Ubivis

About Damnation: This post is scummy because he conveniently is using faulty logic to bandwagon nmillar's starting vote on Typhoon. Especially if Ubivis flips scum, which he likely will. What Damnation here is saying is,
1. The mafia targeted pazzer, and pazzer was protected.
2. Why would mafia roleblock Typhoon instead of Ubivis when planning to nk pazzer?
3. Typhoon claiming to be roleblocked is scummy because of point 2.
4. Pazzer is a little bit scummy because he wanted the doc to protect Typhoon.

What I read into this is,
- He did not acknowledge Ubivis being alive, and the possibility that Ubivis was faking, with the mountain of circumstantial evidence against him. Despite mentioning the obvious case that the mafia targetted pazzer, he fails to present or consider the obvious possibility that Ubivis is bluffing.
- Nothing scummy said about that or Ubivis in general at all, no consideration given to or stated read (town or scum) of him. He dared not claim Ubivis was town! Because he knows Ubivis is not. Yet he doesn't claim Ubivis is scum, because he still thought Ubivis had a chance of escape. Yet in the same post he wants to throw suspicion onto the other two claimed power roles.
- He believes Ubivis and thinks the mafia targetted pazzer (therefore pazzer should be town) but then immediately before that contradicts it by trying to throw dirt on pazzer's request to protect Typhoon. He's trying to look like he agrees with the cop claim/town sentiment that pazzer is town, so he doesn't get investigated, while desperately casting a shadow of doubt on him so people would doubt pazzer/his reads.

Whether nmillar was scummy for starting the wagon or not, Damnation hopped right on with the second vote in an attempt to get Typhoon quicklynched, without a consideration to the page of discussion about whether Ubivis was bluffing or not, to try to save Ubivis.


nmillar: Yeah, that did cross my mind as well about the godfather thing going the other way, which I started to wonder about because of the Tracker role in the game, if the Tracker is indeed town. We'll see though.

Why I can't be Mafia trying to push the lynch of Ubivis, Town Doctor:
- It isn't worth the risk. The doctor is the no-brainer kill at night even though there are the other power roles out there, especially when they don't totally trust each other (there's still doubt on Typhoon, etc) and have lots of unknown targets to investigate still. It's not at all worth the risk of the target being protected by the doc.
- I first brought up the issue of him softclaiming doctor, at the start of Day 2. So I definitely noticed (and even commented on) the day 1 softclaim. Instead of trying to convince town to lynch him, there's no risk in just having night killed him instead. Would anyone here as Mafia let a claimed doctor live one night, let alone two, regardless if you thought he was lying or not? And instead target the other two power roles in town with a block and kill, knowing full well one of them was likely going to be protected?

Also, even though Ubivis is scum, pazzer is town because Ubivis knew who the Mafia were targetting that night anyway, and thus claimed the doctor protect on him. Thus I believe the actual target WAS pazzer, just that the unknown doc (I have two suspicions as to who) did guess correctly and protect him.

If it reaches lynch (he's at L-2, but he already claimed anyway) and I don't survive the night, my reads are:
Town: jesskitten, pazzer
Leaning town: Enterprise2004, Typhoon45, Robbeasy, nmillar
Leaning scum: Nazarush, Damnation
Scum: Ubivis

(And you shouldn't necessarily just agree with me cause I post walls!)

Naz by elimination since he hasn't posted could be the third scum, assuming 3 scum, and if the other two are correct, though hopefully the power roles have some insight on that the next few days.

Also I'll be AWOL this weekend as always but will try to check in and read along (in both games). I likely can't post walls till at least Monday, and possibly not till later in the week, depending on awful work schedule.

As has been repeatedly said, Ubivis looks to be really scummy for having been ignored in the night. The original points of suspicion against him (his unprompted softclaim for instance,) are also still relevant here.

I dont want to jump at a lynch quite yet though, I want to look back at some other possibilities first.

Also, I know this has been brought up multiple times before, but Im very curious today about people's opinions regarding a massclaim. I know the prevailing opinion was that massclaims would be anti-town, but at this point in the game it just might tell the town more than it tells the mafia.

No, if Ubivis does turn out to be mafia, then we want to protect the identity of the real doctor.

That is a good point, I was thinking more along the lines of locking people into their claims so if someone else made a copycat claim we would have a guaranteed scum lynch either today or tomorrow. Or, as long as everyone followed the "town should never lie," rule, and if no one else claimed doc, we would know Ubivis was actually telling the truth.

Well, it seems pretty certain that he is lying. As jesskitten pointed out, there's no way a Doctor should be able to survive for two nights.

Yes, unless the mafia intentionally left him alive to get an easy mislycnh today. I have to agree that it seems like a less likely scenario than that Ubivis is just scum, but it should still be considered.

Either way, Im not comfortable pushing a lynch so soon after the bandwagon started. Everyone should get a chance to voice their opinion about the lynch first.