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trentonlf: [To Robbeasy] You have two votes against you...
I believe Robbeasy has only one vote against him, CSPVG. Who did you think the second vote was?
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Sage103082: So basically Yogs is playing very scummy but this is not a reason to be considered scum?

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Yog even says himself that his play has slipped. For right now I am seeing more scum-ness from yogs. I agree with a lot of Hijack points on yogs but unlike him I do tend to see yogs as scum.

Vote Yogsloth
Am I correct in assuming that this is the first time you've initiated a vote wagon on anyone ever (i.e. voted on someone with as yet zero votes on them)?
Congratulations. You have come of age.
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trentonlf: [To Robbeasy] You have two votes against you...
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mrkgnao: I believe Robbeasy has only one vote against him, CSPVG. Who did you think the second vote was?
You are correct, Robb has only one vote. I confused that with Vitek who has two votes.
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Sage103082: So basically Yogs is playing very scummy but this is not a reason to be considered scum?

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Yog even says himself that his play has slipped. For right now I am seeing more scum-ness from yogs. I agree with a lot of Hijack points on yogs but unlike him I do tend to see yogs as scum.

Vote Yogsloth
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mrkgnao: Am I correct in assuming that this is the first time you've initiated a vote wagon on anyone ever (i.e. voted on someone with as yet zero votes on them)?
Congratulations. You have come of age.
Yes I am no longer a girl but a woman. =P (I was going to put something about cherries but I think it was little to much)

Though I think calling it a vote wagon is a little out there as I am putting my vote on who I am finding the scummiest right now.
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Sage103082: (I was going to put something about cherries but I think it was little to much)
ditto
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mrkgnao: snip....
Perhaps you could prepare a gradient list (tend to town, neutral, tend to mafia) about all the players. Perhaps others will want to do the same. I find them useful since they limit the scum's maneuvaribility. Once they publish their list, they need to constantly justify changing their attitude and they become less flexible in jumping onto the random wagon.
Agreed and I shall do once I've gone back through things. I'm home from work now and with a free evening ahead should be able to pull this together.

In fact we all should - for the very reason mrkgnao states - it gives the scum less wiggle room when more info is revealed.
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DarkoD13: Confirmation of what? Would there be a reason not to hammer after everyone had chimed in and would it have helped establish me as town or mafia?
Confirmation that you would actually make the vote, rather than delay further. I don't like it when folks don't put their vote where their mouth is when it is down t the wire. Like I said, I suspect that you would have (regardless of your alignment), but it just would have been nice to see it happen.

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trentonlf: Also, what do you think about people saying we should probably lynch you for inactivity? Vitek has said he would be OK with such a lynch.
Not much; I don't really dwell on it. I am pretty biased on the issue, as you might imagine. However, I can see why someone might want me out of the game, given my lackadaisical play-style to date. I don't think it says much about their alignment either way, in and of itself.
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DarkoD13: Again I find myself agreeing with mrkgnao (I will be sad if you're scum).
The feeling is mutual on both counts, although after game #23, I am constantly bracing myself for the worst.
EBWOP.

Both my replies in my last post were to DarkoD13. Must have typoed the second quote post number.
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HijacK: Yogy doesn't do a lot of townie things. Doesn't really chime in on questioning.
Not sure what this means. If anything, I feel like I have to stop myself from questioning so much. If I haven’t been “chiming in”, I need you to point to a specific situation of what that looks like, and where I didn’t do it. I keep feeling like there’s too much Yog in this game as it is.

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HijacK: Creates conflicts through his language.
Well, yes, guilty. But gee… I wonder who else does that kind of thing? Can you think of anybody?
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HijacK: Omits things that were actually said.
Usually on purpose. Can you figure out why I kept omitting your bit about “I still think he needs to be lynched”? How about because it’s WIFOMy nonsense, to say this and then refuse to vote. A statement like that is not material to my argument. Ergo, I ignore it and point out the facts instead.

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HijacK: Doesn't bother to discover info.
What on earth does this mean? Can you give me an example of what “bothering to discover info” looks like? Is it sitting on the fence, posting bland drivel, making vague allusions to a future play that may or may not happen?

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HijacK: Comes up with overly complicated theories without having anything on them.
Please directly quote my overly complicated theory. Because right now, my main theory is that your behavior is scummy due to specific, factual voting behavior in day one and intentional lack of decisiveness (and change in information gathering method) in day two. It is true that if I present a scum-hunting theory, it’s my responsibility to effectively convince others of my findings. If I fail at that, it’s on me. But thus far, I find your defense as bland and non-specific as everything else you’ve posted on day two. If I had to guess, I would say your current strategy is to let me swing wildly and impale myself on my own sword, without ever having to construct a coherent defense. Possibly this will work – I don’t know.

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HijacK: That is not a good player. How do I know he's town? I don't. I just think so because of the circumstances (and if he is to flip scum, then screw this! I need to improve ASAP). Adalia kept him on his scum list for an entire day for something that some of the players gave yogy town points. Voting for adalia is a so-so. The compelling reasons for voting adalia didn't even come from him. Avoided some subject that we agreed not to discuss. As a whole, if I was to paint him as something based on these facts, it would be scummy. He created quite a few conflicts with townies. Missed entire points from their posts and added his own version of what they said. Never proves what he says.
Again, bland and meaningless. I never prove what I say? What does that mean? What does “proof” look like in a game of Forum Mafia… where even you were so totally “fooled” by adalia on day one? If we wait for iron-clad, forensic proof, this game will take a long time to play, indeed.

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HijacK: As a matter of fact, adalia and yogy are very similar. Both tend to come up with these type of theories that sound nice, but not really. They do not bother to really prove anything as far as their theories go. Actually, adalia engaged in more questioning than yogy. This should make him look more towny than yogy.
But with all of this, I can't really picture him as scum. Such bad plays. It's not even funny. Call it a gut feeling, but I only think he's town, I do not know for certain. However, if I get fooled a second time in a row for over estimating the situation, I need to change something.
Bad play? Perhaps. I give my day one an A-. I ID’d adalia early, made efforts to further draw him out, and once two players I considered town-leaning voted, I felt even more confident. When he role-claimed, I thought it through very carefully and constructed a very logical argument on why he should be lynched. And I still voted for him. He flips scum, and I’m feeling pretty good about things.

Day two, OK, not so much greatness to be had. But I’m trying like hell, unlike half the players in this game. I take risks, I yap a lot (hope this doesn’t become a catchphrase, ha ha!), I bump into other players to see what shakes loose. If we all played like mrk describes as the “old-timers” posting once every 24 hours, this game would be unbearably boring.

I stand by my assessment that HijacK and trent are the scummiest players right now. Telika requested we start voting, so I placed my vote on my #1 candidate, and continue to believe it’s where it should be, given the limited information we have available to us. If I see HijacK begin to actively engage in what looks like scum-hunting behavior, then perhaps I will be forced to reconsider. But for now, I believe his total reversal on adalia and lack of insight on day two are painting his behavior as too inconsistent to not be deliberate.

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Sage103082: So basically Yogs is playing very scummy but this is not a reason to be considered scum?

Yog even says himself that his play has slipped. For right now I am seeing more scum-ness from yogs. I agree with a lot of Hijack points on yogs but unlike him I do tend to see yogs as scum.

Vote Yogsloth
Fair enough, and I hope this post goes some way to alleviating your concerns.
Sigh, I constantly keep falling behind.

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DarkoD13: Would it be fair if I said that if someone made a comment like this one in the past ("If I was to vote someone right now, it would be Krypsyn, if only for his excessive lurkiness. I see him playing CK2 often, that's true, but it looks like he is just ignoring this thread altogether and some of his posts still doesn't fill me with trust even after explaining.") you would have torn them a new one?

Awaiting your best, whenever you decide to share.
I suppose you are somewhat right and I understand why you are questioning him. But it depends on why the person lurks. If it is usual lurker who does it every game then yeah, voting for him is bad move. But if one person sometimes lurks and sometimes doesn't then it is worth watching. I was for some reason convinced that in G15 where he was scum (I haven't watched G22 too much) he acted in similar way but I looked through that game since then (I know, I know, only after) and he in fact wasn't like that. So his lurking actually says nothing about his alignment.
I also wanted to see if he will suddenly reappear and react, the same way JMich always does. This was thwarted by Telika's following prod (seriously that guy needs to go).

As for current suspects I noticed were recently mentioned, I don't really support any of them.
Yogsloth I do not currently suspect at all and saw nothing taht would made me vote him.
Trenton did a lot of scummy things, and maybe it is mistake, but I just don't feel it. I think he is too awkward to be genuine scummy.
Robb is hard to tell for me. I find him suspicious every time and after I was really convinced about him in 2 games in row and he was town both of times, I keep mostly ignoring him and don't trust my reads on him. (while he can't ever keep his dirty mind off me) So it's up to others to catch him. :-)
HijacK - hmm, hard to tell, I would have to read more of his posts, I admit I wasn't paying too much attention to him and saw nothing worth of noting.

I will add other reads later today, I need break now.

Guh, this short post took me 2 hours to type. (I was not typing all that time ;-)) So I hope lynch didn't happen in the mean time and it is not obsolete. :-)
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Krypsyn: EBWOP.

Both my replies in my last post were to DarkoD13. Must have typoed the second quote post number.
I hope Day two analysis is coming. We need you.
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yogsloth: We need you.
Speak for yourself. I only need beer.
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yogsloth: Telika requested we start voting,
Let's not exagerate. You people do as you wish. I'm having a very relaxed moderating game (with just one vote to write down every week), and this pace suits me very well.

I just spent a handful of games being systematically ACCUSED of playing like you lot are playing now, so, on one hand it feels sweet and soothing, on the other hand WAAARGH.

If any of you EVER reproach me my nonvoting textwalls in the next game, I... I... retroactively modkill you in this game. Or something.
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yogsloth: Telika requested we start voting,
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Telika: Let's not exagerate. You people do as you wish. I'm having a very relaxed moderating game (with just one vote to write down every week), and this pace suits me very well.

I just spent a handful of games being systematically ACCUSED of playing like you lot are playing now, so, on one hand it feels sweet and soothing, on the other hand WAAARGH.

If any of you EVER reproach me my nonvoting textwalls in the next game, I... I... retroactively modkill you in this game. Or something.
Don't worry, yogsloth a carrying the mantle of text walls very well ;-)