Over not being able to keep his game up?

MrK - I think the majority of his posts are very pro-town Is trying to get everyone talking - trying to go in different directiosn to find the scum.

Vitek - Pushing buttons to get reactions

yogs - starting to move down my list to the scummier side -posting walls of text but not to much actually thoughts and
contributions of find the scum.

CSPVG (I have moved to more scum) - Very little posting since day 2 and not much to add to the game at all. He does try to draw attention to Rob in 2 of his post and then turns around in his last post and explains why Rob's actions are not pointing to scum. The post is riddled with well maybe it could be but nah because of this.

Hijack - Different play style great if he is town but I still fear there is a reason he wants to stay in the game more than he did the last 2 games. States he has theory but never really goes into them. He does go over the events that have taken place. IE banter and conversations with his opinion. (Moving Hijack to the middle for now)

Krypsen - Lack of posting because he is game playing - seems like it might just be an excuse ti sit on the sidelines. Has yet to post his feelings or theories.

Darko - very beginning of day 2 puts yogs and trent squarely in town. Seems a little hasty. Posts the bandwagon..very-town. Answers questions and asks them. (Going back over I am not sure why I had you in tend to be scum - Maybe it was late and I put you in the wrong place but Please note- this should have been leaning more town.)

trent - seems everything is about his role or night action. - leading away from finding scum. Not to much from him on who he thinks is scum.

Dedo - playing different as well - seemed to be very into trying to figure out ways to find scum last game - seems like this game is more about keeping game play options to himself and see what happens.

Rob - Votes easily to see what he can get out of it but is this for the town or for the scum. Explains himself for his comment on the books vote. And explains his play type. I would like to hear more from Rob.

No I am on the fence with Rob. As I stated above I would really more posts from Rob. As of right now I am not sure either way on Rob.

CSPVG and Krypsyn, I've heard there's some sort of game on the GOG forum called "GOG Mafia #24", perhaps you'd care to join?

Just in case you don't enjoy the company, I'll be leaving here two plates of cookies. Pehaps you'll come for the food and stay for the service.


- One plate of cookies for CSPVG.
- One plate of cookies for Krypsyn.

One huge motherf'er of a post coming up. Going to write it all out tonight.

God dammit. Post is too long for the forum software to accept. Will break into two pieces:

I will describe why I'm frustrated (since I was asked specifically) and then will try to make my lengthy post-on-everyone thoughts. Hopefully that will get us out of this rut.

*WARNING* This is probably going to be brutally long.

So, as noted before, I'm not pleased with our Day 2 thus far, and my performance within it. I began Day 2 with two top suspects on my scum list, and while they are both there, I've added two more names, but with so real surety on any of them. While I don't expect a huge "red flag" post like we got from adalia in day one like I felt we had here, I’ve certainly held high hopes to learn more today from the various pings and bounces that we have all sent. I feel I haven’t learned much new today at all, and even worse, we now have a few combatants squared off against one another. Dedo has formally accused Vitek, and Mkgano has made a strong move against Robb… and none of these people are on my list… which means virtually everybody is pulling in different directions. So, I am frustrated… we make little to no progress as a group, and I don’t see us having a better-than-random chance at hitting scum two days in a row. Telika must be dying of boredom while we all flail about in the dark.

That said, I’m going to try yet again to move this football down the field. I held cards tight to my chest until I had time to effectively write everything down, but it is my hope that we can get some more specific discussion going now, and start putting some heat on.

Leaning town

Mrkgano, Robbeasy, DarkoD13, dedoporno
Although none of you have been “perfect” on my town scorecard, the overall scoring on all of you points me so strongly to town, that if any of you are scum I want to give you a thumbs up and a pat on the back when this is all over. You see part of my problem then, when one of you names one of the others as suspect #1? While “linguistics” might turn up a hit or two, it’s just too much honkey voodoo for me to see that little “Do you see why I’m doing this” as anything other than face value. I accept Robb’s explanation of what that meant here.

Neutral

Each name on this list will require more individual notes.

CSPVG – I realize “meta” is some kind of faux pas in this game, but I can’t get away from the many instances I’ve seen of CSPVG calling out lurkers, describing lurking as a scummy activitiy, or even going so far as to name scum suspects entirely on the basis of general refusal to post or contribute. Example here. Yet here he is, “power lurking” as he says. When he does pop up, it contributes little. With so few words, how do we peg him as scum? We can’t… but the total change in thinking on the matter may be enough. I just don’t like it. I would put him on the “leaning scum” list, except it’s already over-crowded.

Vitek – I realize he really pissed in dedo’s Cheerios, but I can’t get completely on board this wagon. While he has been awfully dick-ish at times, and somewhat lurky overall, when he does pop up and post, it’s to prod people along. I don’t think being rude is scum behavior by itself. Nothing that obvious could be. The two things he’s noticed that I liked: 1) Discussion of flavor-filled but information-starved night PMs is not helpful. Of course, I also carefully read game #18 in preparation for this one, so I knew ahead of time that would be part of the lay of the land for this game. It seems like everyone wanted to start chasing the meaning of trent’s tale of a PM at precisely the wrong time, and Vitek and I both noticed and commented independently at literally almost the exact same time. He was also the only other one to notice Krypsn’s comments about Sage’s style, which I completely disliked, for essentially the same reasons Vitek gave. This doesn’t give me exclusively town vibe about him, but it’s more effort than I’ve seen from some of you, even with the paucity of actual posts.
So…

Leaning scum

This will be a tough one, so in ascending order of filthiness:

Sage – Her play style has always been one of the indecisive and overly-cautious wallflower. Game one, let’s give her a pass. Game two, it was grating on me so much I was convinced she was scum until the last day. Game three… I can’t take it much more. Although her contributions this weekend have softened my stance somewhat, I see her total contributions to the first 1½ days thus far largely being “Hi all, not much, shower, not much, don’t know, bath, think about it later, shower, good points, will post more, kthanksbai”. And around and around as to what’s not happening. Posting huge walls of copied textwith no comments? That’s both ridiculous and prima facie obfuscatory. Then when I tell her to stop, she drops it and runs away. No defending her actions – just a total retreat and never mentions it again. Game three and this skittish? It just feels like scum running for her life, not sure what to do next to avoid detection. (Do I lurk? Do I post? What do I post that says nothing and reveals nothing?) As I say, her posts just today are ten times better than what I’ve seen all game, so perhaps her confidence is finally increasing. Sorry Sage, I’m just not going to trust you until you get more aggressive. Do I have enough to start a wagon? It’s little more than a gut feeling, so no, not at all. I’m just keeping a very close eye on this one.

Krypsyn – So here’s the deal with Krypsyn. Veteran player, extremely analytical, extremely verbose in most of his games. Experienced mod as well. Taken to posting impressive wall-of-text uber-multi-quote analytical masterpieces. I’m not going to link to a specific game here – just look through any previous game he’s played. Scum or town, he’s verbal to the extreme. In this game, he’s nowhere to be found. At all. This forces me to one of two conclusions:
a) He’s scum and letting us fight amongst ourselves
b) He’s town, and so disinterested in this game, that his unwillingness to post or contribute in any meaningful way is so virulently anti-town, he should be lynched to dispose of the distraction
Overall, just utterly disappointing non-performance from one who should be a key contributor. I want him gone. I just can’t say with certainty this is scum behavior, and I don’t want to lynch just because I’m pissed off – I want a more definitive candidate.

HijacK – My only slight hit today has been the fact he’s the only one who noticed I’ve been building a case against him. Ha ha! You are my buddy, HijacK, even if I think you’re on a different team!

Have any of you ever played the card game Bridge? I haven’t very much, but my parents used to play it all the time, so I saw them play it many many times with many different people. Bridge is a game where you are dealt a hand of cards, and then must play as a team to defeat the other team. (In this case, as pairs.) Once the cards are dealt, the individuals must go through a bidding process without overt communication with their partners, and there is actually a specific mathematically correct bid and response to make each time, as well as a mathematically correct card to play each time. It’s an incredibly scientific game, and games are lost not when a player makes a bold and correct move, but when a player makes a mistake and plays the statistically sub-optimal option. There are shelves of books about this. Some bridge players play for fun, and some are ruthless. Some bridge players rip even their partners to shreds for a mis-play.

HijacK is that guy. He may not be the best bridge player in the room, but he’s the best at this table, and he’s going to let you know it every single card that hits the table. Even if it’s his own partner, he’s going to rip somebody a new one for every sub-optimal play, because he just can’t help it. The math is right there in front of him… why can’t you see it, you halfwit cretins? I think it’s entirely possible he bussed adalia… without meaning to. He seized on his perception of adalia’s mis-plays, and shook him over and over without ever coming out and calling him scummy. I suspect most of us who got on adalia’s wagon saw the principal evidence as his inability to deal with the heat HijacK put on him… even though the heat wasn’t accusatory of scumminess! At the last moment, inches before the hammer is delivered, HijacK actually backs way, way off… and posts not only that he is sure adaila is town, but that he bought that ridiculous role claim. Does anyone think HijacK was the only one of us to believe with his whole heart that PGO nonsense? I sensed this as more of “oh shit, I just bussed my scumbuddy, better post something that shows I’m wrong and uncertain of myself”. Because with one scum down on day one, we’d better protect ourselves and do what those idiot town rubes do, right? Look at me, I can be wrong about something too!

Then on day two, when he has the opportunity to tear trent to pieces, he totally walks away. I don’t like that one little bit. His Day 2 tone is more analytical, but it’s like there’s a blind spot in his vision, and he can’t see trent at all. I don’t like that. At all. Trent has been easy pickins, and our Romanian friend acts like trent’s not even there. Seriously – go re-read the last couple of pages.

Which brings us to…

trentonlf - Poor, poor trent. He’s going to feel awfully beat up on by so many people. He was my #2 scum target at the end of day two. On and off the bandwagon… and stays off. The last-second “Hey guys, I’m totally vanilla, and I told you that already. What? What do you mean you didn’t notice?” end of Day 1 thing was bogus. Day 2 starts out with his insistence we ignore the events of Day 1 and instead talk about his ship model and his PM (which he then defends over and over again). General misdirection and oddball play. I am most utterly baffled about his repeating pattern of too-obvious mistakes and I-don’t-know-what-I’m-doing mis-cues. How long do mafia games usually last? What do words mean, because I don’t have the Internet? Isn’t Flub a girl because he played one on TV?

Then there’s This post that almost made me rip my hair out. “This guy’s posts are pro-town, that guy’s posts are pro-town….” Oh really? Did you go to detective school to figure that one out? Here I was, waiting for someone to post, “Hey guys, let’s rip off the townies’ heads and shit down their necks, oops, lol, just kidding”. This post is a big bag of nothing.

So my feeling on trent is either he’s town and just flailing wildly, or he’s scum and trying his damndest to distract the town from some important point we’ve all missed. It’s all just barely below the cutoff I need to start a wagon myself, and I already know his response is going to be “I already explained all this, this just isn’t fair! Hey, let’s look at my night actions again, we might have missed something.” Or somesuch.

So there you have it all. Hope that’s specific and contributory enough for you all. My Day 2 started out with the plan I would be Mr. Stealth Ninja Man and draw out something subtle and damning, and it’s not happening. So I’m switching tactics to bull-in-a-china-shop. Hoping that sees something in this big plate of verbal spaghetti that causes a mental click and can lead us to a more sure decision.

Impressive... [what's the superlative of wall? bulwark, bastion, rampart, buttress?]

You kind of lost your temper when you got to the scum part, but one can see your heart went into writing this post.

A few immediate comments before I mull the whole post over in full:
1) You give Vitek points for being "the only other one to notice Krypsn’s comments about Sage’s style". Unfortunately, I believe it wasn't Vitek who made that point. It was trentonlf in the very post you linked to (#703) and to which you've attached an epithet that I will not repeat (and which probably has no real place in a friendly game). If I'm not mistaken, Vitek only joined the discussion about Sage and Krypsyn in post #753.

2) As a bridge player of more than 35 years, I really enjoyed your summary of the game.

3) We greatly differ in our reading of HijacK. But I will let him defend himself. Should be informative.

4) While I completely agree with your summary of trentonlf's multipls slips, this is not the kind of slips trentonlf of game #22 would have made. So, I'm still worried.

I don't know. Unless you're scum, we aren't on opposite teams. Also, it was beyond obvious you were accusing me of being scum in post 748.

While I get that you weren't obvious in your accusation, did you really think I'm stupid not to notice? I read carefully, and thoroughly. That's why I was able to catch adalia.

Never even heard about the game, but hey, I believe I said it myself around the middle of Day 1 that this game I will be ruthless.

Yeah, you're entirely wrong about the whole thing as far as my "implication" with adalia is concerned. If I was scum, I'd play it smarter than bussing one of my team on Day 1 when nothing is concrete. Wasn't that obvious? Or are you trying to call me stupid?

While I acknowledge trent's playstyle is entirely different from games #22 and #23, using something of a mystique like tone in his posts, something that he has never done before, that doesn't mean I'll jump on him. He made questionable decisions with his words, but guess what? As far as I'm concerned, almost everyone who's here alive in Day 2 has done a questionable thing, or more. Should I jump on everyone I think did a questionable thing? Let me teach you a mathematical algorithm I learned in mathematics and history. It's call Divide and Conquer. I'll monitor everyone's words and interactions with other people, and when someone has said something that I deem too scumy, that's when I'll strike. Not sooner, not later. Divide and Conquer. As simple as that.

Dayum!

So much to read on and mostly good stuff!

I'm at work right now so I'm just going to write a couple of things fast, excuse me for not quoting properly.

@yogsloth: First things first. Dickish behavior shouldn't be taken as scum flag and I don't see it that way. Of course, someone who has been a jerk in some of their posts may end up flipping scum, but I'll never base an accusation only on this, because that would be silly and childish. Vitek has been a dick, but so have been others. HijacK, Flub and guess what - even you with your comments on trentonlf. So yeah, while I would prefer a more civilized and polite finger-pointing (in the end it's just a game and we are here to have a good time) I get that's the way some people roll.

Moving on to the actual reads. As I said, mostly good stuff and I agree with you on most of them. I have pretty much the same worries about Sage and Krypsyn. Especially Krypsyn - he looks way too uninterested in the current way the game develops and I'm not sure how to read that. Just like with HijacK in the last game I'm wondering if it'll be better for him to not be here even if he is actually town because his current way of participation provides more uneasiness than anything of value to think about.

I'm mostly OK with your Town list, too. My only difference there will be Robbeasy who is more neutral in my eyes at the moment and I have you in his place.

On the flip side I have trentonlf and Vitek as my top people of interest. Note that I'm consistently not saying scum, because I have the feeling they are on opposing teams but (and just to make sure this is not read in the wrong way by someone - I'm not hinting or claiming anything here, just making a point) if I had two shots at two people and had to use them simultaneously, I would hit both of them even if the first one flipped scum, just to make sure.

CSPVG... I would really like to find out what his deal is. He's interesting to follow and try to understand, like a movie. I would actually sit with a bag of popcorn when things start to unveil with his persona :D

For the rest of the players I mostly on the fence right now and I don't have anything more of value to add, that hasn't already be said by someone else.

I see everyone is getting impressive with reads, yet no-one seems to be using their vote.

I know I promised a read myself yesterday, but RL caught up with me I'm afraid! I'm at work now, but if I get a chance I will pop something together at lunchtime

Hello everyone, I just wanted to check in and say that I am in the process of reading all of the latest posts, and that I apologise for not having posted in two days. I've felt rather out of sorts the past two days (I hope that I'm not coming down with flu), so I'll have something for you either by tonight or tomorrow.

Welp, today I finish my application to Berkeley. I hope it will be good. I'll give a list of my thoughts on everyone ala flub the hot bucket later today.

I'm starting to think that people often say "I'm going to read through the thread again and post my thought" just skim over it and don't really "read" it. I am not going to go into all your reads, but I will mine.

1. If you would read post 491, we were one away from a lynch and I wanted to hear from others before we hammered. I wanted more info to go on in day 2 by hearing others thoughts. CSPVG was the last to post his thoughts and when he did he voted for adaliabooks. So exactly how was I going to get back "on the wagon" when CSPVG cast the vote to hammer?

2. When CSPVG did vote adaliabooks in post 559 he mentioned his ship model. If you would have actually read the next four posts following 559 you would see I only gave my ship model in reference to it being different than adalia's and CSPVG and finding it interesting. Then when Hijack commented on this becoming a role claiming spree, I said I had no role. I had no chance to point the post out where I had already stated this, so I did once day 2 started in post 586. Where is the bogus in me saying I have no role?

3. I would love for you to point out to me where I "insist we ignore days ones post and only focus on my ship model and PM I got". In post 586 I answered Hijack and dedo's question as to where I claimed no role. At that time I mentioned the night action against me because I found it odd and was unsure what it meant, and I wanted to see if anyone else had thoughts on it. Did I keep going 'hey what do you think about that night action against me" to everyone? No I did not. The only times I have talked about it is when I was directly questioned about it or explaining it for the uptenth time. You would have noticed this if you had actually read the posts.

4. I-don’t-know-what-I’m-doing mis-cues and obvious mistakes? I have played two mafia games before this one. The first one moved really fast and the second one pretty fast too I thought. This one is moving slow and I commented on it, how is this a miscue or obvious mistake? I wanted you to respond to my question about what lulz was (mrkgnao did instead). Lulz has a negative connotation to it, even if you think it's cute, and I wanted to see what you said about it. But, as you seem to have done all game you ignore it when I ask you a direct question. What is wrong with me assuming Flub was a girl? And what the hell do you mean she played one on tv? I was referring to last game were Flub's postings made it seem as if he was a girl. So I assumed I had been wrong when I thought he was a guy. Darko pointed it out the he really was a guy. Again, how is this an obvious mistake?

5. So I give my impressions on everyone and it's a "bag of nothing"? OK, guess I'm playing the wrong game then.

6. I have not been "flailing" at any point in the game. Once again if you had actually read the posts made, I have never said anything along the lines of "hey let's look at my night actions again, we might have missed something". I have only answered questions on it.

I have my fingers crossed for you on that one. Good luck!