Not from me. Just trying to think my way through the possibilities. You didn't see me move my vote.

I wanted a word from your flavor text, not the role. To me this would lessen the chances a great deal that you didn't have some sort of role-cop ability and were trying to piggy back on claimed town. You finally said your word was "standard" (at least I assume that is what you meant), and nobody has said you were lying. Furthermore, the 9th word in my role PM is "Lokitop" as in the spaceship... it would make sense for "standard" to possibly come before your ship name if you are a vanilla, as you claim (assuming your PM format is similar to mine).

While I don't dismiss that you may have gotten the full vanilla text some other way, even I have to admit it is becoming far less probable. As you say, there really isn't a role I have ever heard of that gives you the entire text verbatim. I am just finding it hard to give up on the notion that you are scum. :P

Going to bed now... hope to hear from Vitek overnight, as I have a feeling he should have something interesting to add, based on his hinting earlier...

Read the few last pages of posts. I'm going to cut to the case, these discussions don't seem to be leading anywhere. At least the posts were small, so they were easy to read. I'm in no mood for walls of text.

What I think so far:

Krypsyn: I thought he was town both before and after the role claim. I don't have a lot of experience with him as a player so whatever people are finding weird at him basically means nothing to me. His methods of finding scum seem less efficient than I thought they would be, but has constructive posts. So far he's leaning more towards town.

Vitek: I was never quite certain where to put him as a player. I have even less experience with Vitek than with Krypsyn, so a thorough read on him had to be established purely based on the vibes I got from his posts. If I was fence sitting on him during day 1, I tend to put him more towards town. There aren't major reasons for this. I just found the way he argued with others fairly townish. His argument with Krypsyn was boring though. Bottom line, leaning town.

Sage: Not really sure about her. I tend to believe her claim, but then I look at the PM I got from Telika and I'm questioning all the details it gave me about her ship. From weaponry and maneuverability to the ships applications. This is not to say she may not be a survivor, but then this begs the question, how often do survivors, if ever, have abilities? Leaning true neutral?

Dedo: For the longest time I thought he was a neutral role of lyncher. Still unsure about it. This is just what I got from him. His relentless pursuit of trent seemed suspicious, but then trent started nit picking him a bit and the interactions between them changed a bit. He now seems to have another target. Leaning scum.

Yoglsoth: I find some of his posts ridiculous. Mostly the ones with crazy theories. I get that his ways of finding scum are different, but there's a certain margin and probability to whether these theories are actually applicable. Like in science, a theory can only be proven by the scientific method, but frankly his theories are a bit too ridiculous to be worth checking using the scientific method. Leaning crazy tree talking hobo. Or pretty much a meh neutral.

CSPVG: Not much on him. Giving him the benefit on doubt. If anybody asks for a reading, well, bad luck. I got nothing since he posted close to nothing.

Darko: I don't like some of his points. Yeah, they sound good on paper, but I think he dabbles a bit too much with hypothetical stuff to be actually applicable given the dynamic nature of the game. I tend to believe Telika enjoys messing with us as players, so his points aren't exactly applicable. He does a lot of questioning and asks some fairly good questions, but the responses he gives when questioned are lackluster. Neutral to slightly scum.

Mrkgnao: Fairly interesting adaptation to questioning from game #23. Day 1 he seemed to go more with the flow and now he seems to do a lot of questioning. It may be due to the fact a deadline is close and as town he's trying to find a scum, or that he as scum tries to lynch a townie just to be one step closer to victory. This game has been dragging for a while, so impatience to win may be a cause. Neutral with slightly leaning scum.

Trent: I find his posts mostly townish. He defended himself relentlessly against accusations and engaged in discussions fairly well. He did a few suspicious things like confusing, or "confusing", ship models for role names. I didn't really get it why he even thought like that. I also didn't like the rather limited view of marks as being a universal criteria for whether someone has a power role or not. However, I give him the benefit of doubt since when I add everything up he looks more town than scum. Slightly leaning town.

Robbeasy: I don't like his methods. Period. Lynch for the sake of lynching. Lackluster and ambiguous explanations of why do something and what would be the end result. He looked fairly neutral day 1. Didn't really strike me as either town or scum for the beginning of day 2. However, towards the end, his methods, theories and actions took a turn for Yogsloth-Land. I'm all for theorizing, but at least bring something that at least sounds decent and doesn't have a huge variable of improbability the size of Manhattan. Leaning scum.

Telika: Do I even need to explain this? Obviously scum. Can't you tell? He's trolling us like a boss.

Ah, yes, and I suggest stop talking about PMs at least until Day 3. It is obviously a slow conversation and the deadline is coming fast.

Ah well, I hope you found this post sufficient. Not sure when I'll make one like this again.

I don't know what you expected from me.

I asked you a question in #1739. I didn't find your answer in #1741 even attempting to be convincing. I asked a side question in #1760, the answer to which #1764 I also found a bit troubling. And I finally summarised it in #1777. Then when I asked you a clarification question in #1781, you did not answer it (thankfully yogsloth did).

Throughout, I felt no interest from you to address my suspicions in a convincing way. I can appreciate that you might not find any need to allay my suspicions, since I have a pretty poor record so far of convincing the town of my suspicions (e.g. about Robbeasy) or opinions (e.g. about CSPVG). That is certainly your prerogative.

The fact that other people joined in questioning you is at the moment neither here nor there for me. In fact, I made it clear in post #1744 that the additional password questions raised by Krypsyn were irrelevant for me.

As I stated originally, I did not intend to initiate vote changes this late in the day, nor was it ever my intention to vote for you today. I wanted to see whether I could resolve the troubling discrepancy and for the moment I cannot.

All I can do is restate my major argument, which is that I read post #1499 as something written by someone who either has a power role or has some inside information and that this does not sit well with a vanilla claim.

I expect we shall return to it on day #3.

Thank you for the explanation. I figured the Darko stuff, but I seem to have missed the part where Robbeasy suggests that flavors for the two factions may not be the same. I want to point out that the PM consists of a few smaller snippets of different information (pilot name, ship and role (and yes, I also see vanilla as a role)). The larger text block (on which I assume all the comparing was based) describes mostly the ship and it's abilities that the pilot may use (if applicable). Considering all ships are Nisk property and the pilots are the ones that may or may not be treacherous, why does it seem so improbable that both factions may share the same flavor for vanilla?

We assume so. We know nothing.


I'm even more confused now that I was before all this happened, so I'm going to stick to my vote and my original voting plan. The dealing is slowly creeping on us and as someone pointed out before - last minute based votes may be even worse than early rushed ones.

I don't remember the post number, but Robbeasy did indeed suggest flavors for the 2 factions are different.

Because they are infiltrators and that should be their flavor PM? That they should destroy us one by one from within our ranks? It's basic thought processing. Why would they have the same flavor if us as infiltrated we need to find the infiltrators?

I don't know about others, but my own flavor doesn't include a winning goal. It only tells me my pilot name and stuff about the ship. Last game the PM specifically said that my (Town's) winning goal was to remove all threat to the student body. I believe the scum had similar, but opposite objective. This time I don't have such thing and that is why I believe it's possible for Vanillas to share the same flavor. It may be applicable to similar power roles as well, but I find it more likely for the Vanillas, since they have the exact same capabilities regardless of alignment.

Well, it was already established that the role information was probably the same through DarkoD13's questioning. I think it is highly unlikely that the flavor information and the role information would be identical. Vanilla is a different role than Goon, after all. One has scumbuddies and the potential to NK, the other has neither.

Fair point. I assume trentonlf is telling the truth about what happened to him during the Night. I see little upside for him to lie about it.

I "scan" local space near my target for ships. However, I cannot "monitor" what happens other than that. Everything other than the words in quotes is paraphrased.

I was talking about the larger text block with the flavor (I say so in the exact same post you quoted) and not about the Role part, being the same. I thought it's fairly clear what I meant when I said the vanilla's are exactly the same, but given your reply I'll will elaborate what my point was. They are the same in term of special abilities (I'm not talking about faction abilities such as NK and teamspeak, but all sorts personal powers like scanning, vigilante/other kills, etc.).

Right, I understood what you said. Like I said, if we already believe that the "role text-block" is the same, what is the probability that the "flavor text-block" will also be the same? I think it is small; that is what I was saying.

After having looked at my role PM a little more, I do think you might be right about one thing though. The first two lines of the flavor text could easily be identical (except for proper nouns), since all it gives (at least for me) is my pilot's name and my ship model. I suppose if one wanted to be perfectly sure, a person could count the number of words in the entire block, or pick a word closer towards the bottom.

Why is that?

I agree.

I don't really understand. Could you please elaborate.

I would have thought that a role cop or even a flavour cop would have been better than a watcher for role finding. A watcher might watch a target and learn nothing if it wasn't targetted by anyone else. A role cop, on the other hand, would have a high chance of picking a power role it seems (unless he targetted a vanilla). Even a flavour cop could at least gauge the relative power strength of its target based on its ship mark (i.e. allow the mafia to find the powerful ones).

BTW, Krypsyn, if I had known you were watching me last night, I would have at least cleaned up my ship a bit. I'm afraid I probably looked a mess.

I was paying more attention to the space around your ship anyway ;). I assume from this statement that you got no PM regarding my actions?

None.