This has been an ongoing assumption by DarkoD13. He first brought it up here

I am still not sure how DarkoD13 narrowed the remaining mafia roles to only Godfather or Favor Cop, but I do agree with him that Flavor Cop is usually a mafia role. I am more amazed that right after DarkoD13 mentioned a Mafia Flavor Cop again in 1503, HijacK claimed a Town Flavor Cop. The WIFOM in that is just ... bleh.

Oh, right. I never mentioned this, but it is past time now. I was against lynching HijacK, because his play this time around seemed consistent with a power role of some sort (he was a little more careful with his posts, at least early on). I wasn't sure on the alignment, so I was keeping him at neutral until more information was available. Now that more information has come to light ... *shrug* ... the moratorium on me voting for him is gone, but I am not sure what to think.

Unvote: DarkoD13

He is no longer definitively the bottom of my list. I am not sure who is.

I have the sinking feeling a mass role-claim is coming. Vitek just dropped his first hint that he may do so. Is it really going to help? I thought it was a clusterfrick in the last game when the role-claiming starting flying on Day 1.

My thoughts so far:

- I don't see Sage and HijacK as a mafia team. This is just too complicated a ploy, and too early. If they are, I really want to see the mafia thread when this game ends (but I'm not cleaning the blood stains).

- I tend to believe Sage. It seems to add up well and is partly corroborated by HijacK. Call me naive, but from the little I know her personally, I even believe she would sacrifice her win for the town if the need arises. But I can obviously see why people see her as a liability.

- I believe HijacK is a flavour cop, as this seems to be partly corroborated by Sage. I still don't know whether he's mafia or not. By itself, his claim under partial duress is of no help. I need to further think whether his move on CSPVG (ostensibly in order to learn whether his own role was pretty good or pretty meh (#1510)) is more in line with scum or with not scum.

@HijacK, since you've revealed everything else, do you think you should also reveal your ship model?
@HijacK, if you're not mafia, for the next game you're a flavour cop in, from the little I know, I believe it is safe enough to assume that flavour cop is a pretty meh role, no need to out others and reveal yourself in order to verify this.

But I reserve the right to do it myself if needed. *sigh* What a mess. My top three scum picks all now have alibis.

Today, instead of a flavor text, you get a FUN FACT.

Fun fact : We have now reached the same amount of voting/unvoting posts as in day 1.

HijacK  has 2 votes, by CSPVG and Mrkgnao.
Vitek  has 1 vote, by DarkoD13.
Trentonlf  has 2 votes, by Sage103082 and Dedoporno.
Sage103082  has 1 vote, by Robbeasy.
Krypsyn  has 1 vote, by Trentonlf.
CSPVG  has 1 vote, by Hijack.

No vote for Robbeasy, DarkoD13, Yogsloth, Mrkgnao and Dedoporno.

No vote by Vitek, Yogsloth and Krypsyn.

Hijack and Trentonlf are at L-4.

Nolynch is at D-9.

I facepalmed when I saw we didn't have that info yet, thanks for the catch.


I wouldn't be against a mass claim. While it is a pretty annoying thig nto do so early in the game, it could help in sorting things out. Ideally it would happen Tomorrow, when we would all have more data to compare, but doing it Today might help catch scum off guard.

Also, I don't see much of a point in doubting HijacK's claim when there's no counterclaim. I have a scenario in mind that could further explain his role from a town perspective, but I won't go into that yet, especially if mass claim is a possibility.

Now you know how i felt when CSPVG wasn't counter claimed after I'd been after him most of the day...;(

Bolded - I accept this. I knew in coming out it was a very good possibility but I would much rather have a lynch for scum then someone who is not scum. If the town as a whole decides it is better to lynch me first then I am ok with that too. I also understand my role is neutral and I can not be fully trusted to not try and win but I can assure you I have aligned myself with town personally.

I know there is someone here that is very knowledgeable about past games and statics, but I am sorry to say I have forgotten who. Could this person or anyone, figure out if in the past games who flavour cop was aligned?

Picking up where mrk left off, I'm going to dust off my decision matrix again. Apologies to anyone who dislikes this way of thinking - it's something I use quite often, and it has served me well many times in "real" life. I want to look at the HijacK/Sage role claims first, considering Hijack is either town or scum, and Sage is either neutral or scum. (I'm going to discount Sage being town and lying about being neutral, because that simply seems totally implausible.)

Both scum: There is no corroboration of either story, other than each other's testimony. It would certainly be a fun scam to cook up, as mrk notes about the scum chat thread. The theory would have to be that the scam was written entirely on Night 1, not to be used unless one of the two was against the wall on a lynch…. Which Hijack was, with three votes already and several more players leaning on him. If executed correctly, it would provide alibis to both active scum simultaneously, at the expense of drawing a lot of attention. If you think this is the scenario that has actually occurred, it seems to me like there are so many assumptions... I don’t remove this as a possibility, but it would be a hell of thing to have everything line up perfectly like this. So, my verdict is that this is possible, but unlikely.

Hijack town/Sage scum: This would mean HijacK is truthful about his read, and it seems very unlikely that the description and class of Sage’s ship would be scum. I think this is a dead end.

Hijack scum / Sage neutral: Without the portion of the story involving CSPVG, this would actually be my conclusion. “Flavor Cop” seems like a more likely role for scum to have than town, as that’s what scum is fishing for with a cop role – information that can be used to identify what kind of role a town player is likely to have. However, the minutiae of the flavor involved makes a perfect sense. Imagine you are the Town Flavor Cop, and you scan someone who comes back with medical responsibilities… and then someone else claims Town Doctor? I would call bullshit exactly the way HijacK did. Would scum make that maneuver? I need to hear more opinions on this possibility.

Both town: All the pieces just seem to click together to support this conclusion. Sage was roundly criticized by several players for timid, defensive play… and now we can see why. HijacK’s behavior towards CSPVG makes more sense. I don’t think we should be 100% secure that this is the conclusion, but it’s going to take something I haven’t yet thought of to make me feel there’s a <50% chance of it.

So yes, my top three scumspects all now have pretty good alibis. I feel like I have to start all over again, and quite frankly, 1500+ posts is a pretty intimidating backlog to have to slog through all over again. I think at least one of the players that’s been firmly town has probably been fooling us all along, and I understand if others put me in that category. So let me make a huge left turn, and call attention to this post:


Which is waaaaay too similar to this post:

LOL!!!

A counterclaim from?

- If HijacK is a mafia flavour cop, I don't expect there to also be a town flavour cop to counter-claim.

- And if you mean a counter-claim from a plain cop (i.e. alignment cop), isn't it possible that there are both an alignment cop and a flavour cop on the town side, because these roles despite the name are quite different in nature (one hints at role, but not at alignment, while the other reveals alignment, but not role), so claiming plain cop now could actually lead to two townies claiming one against the other (if HijacK is not mafia)? Vitek, do you have information on that?

It would depend on how that 2nd cop's role worked, particularly whether it worked in conjunction with the claimed town flavor cop.
Enter at your own peril:
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_19_a_slalom_mafia/page1

Nice one!
I did remember that HijacK managed to drive me mad in both games #22 and #23. I didn't remember that my reaction was the same. I still believe what I said here.

I tried to read that game 19 before this game started as prep. Collapsed under its own weight in words... couldn't do it.

Btw, I'm against having Sage lynched at this point. She doesn't become danger to town until later in the game, and she really has been playing as Town. Now that the burden of having to survive at all costs in secret is removed, I think she can be a valuable ally. If we get to Day 4 and it's 2 scum, 4 town, and 1 Sage, then you kill her. The last thing you want on Day 5 is 2/2/1, because we're dead. The only correct play at that point for Survivor is to join with scum, because if she doesn't, they can threaten to night-kill her. We have some time until then, however, so I think we should not waste the lynch.

Eating lunch at my desk, thinking things through.

The more I think about this, the more I believe I will have to role-claim, despite my distaste at the prospect.

If a mass role-claim is decided - please let me go first. It's important that others react to my claim, and not the other way around.

If the game goes a certain direction, I'm going to do it anyway.