Development! This is getting interesting, even though I'm confused now.

@Sage, you asked for my list of reads, but since your post so much has happened. I'll most likely have to revise it.



Isn't Flavor Cop usually mafia? I'm not accusing HijacK of anything yet, just asking.



Sage confirmed HijacK's ability (not alignment, though, that's important) and if that is a setup, it has been brilliantly and carefully planned out way too early. I don't believe I'll be able to handle such a scenario, so I'll take it at face value.

yogsloth didn't feel CSPVG protecting him (this may have been a lie by either one - CSPVG to survive or yog to discredit CSPVG hoping we may take him out for confirmation. Too much WIFOM to even consider it right now).

Sage didn't feel HijacK scan her.

How come trentonlf felt someone targeting him? I believe that with all said so far it's pretty safe to assume that he wasn't scanned, at least not by a Flavor Cop.

Does that mean we have two Cops on our side and the normal Cop scans in a different way (this seems like an unlikely scenario. Has anyone witnessed two cops on the town side? Isn't this a bit OP?)

Or we don't have the normal Cop? Who scanned him then?

Or we have both Cops and the mafiosos have their own Cop? Is everyone a Cop?!


What else could have happened to trentonlf? He may have been attacked and the attacker - blocked. Why would he feel it? No one else felt being targeted. A role-block doesn't involve the target at all. No reason for trent to feel anything.


The only thing that comes to my mind is that he is lying. And I see 2 probable lies here:

1. No night episode. It's all a distraction to confuse us and point attention away from genuine scum hunting. Scum!

2. He's not a vanilla, but Buletproof, so he survived on his own. Makes most sense if the episode is real. I'm usually against pointing out roles, but bulletproof is more often than not exhausted after one hit. So he is now as vanilla as he claims. No big change there. I don't like this scenario because a bulletproof player should try and attract the NK at all costs, which trent didn't do. And I'm pretty sure that he would have been trying to do so, since he claimed doing it in #23, so he is aware of that tactic. Whatever happened: - town points.

On 2 it has to be reminded that we already had NK. How plausible does it seem for the mafia to have a both a strongman and a the option to make 2 NKs?

I can go for hours conspiracy theorizing and it will only get more and more confused for myself and everyone else.



Bottom line is I don't like this and I say


vote trentonlf



Revised list for the others will have to wait until after work, because I really have to think about it.

Serves me right for answering a post without reading to the end of the thread first - I've just caught up on the HijacK - Sage thing.

One confirming the other does lend credibility, but we have to be very careful.

I am not liking AT ALL the bit about field hospital - dismissed already as 'Telika seems to like complications' but it stinks to me.

Something is screwy somewhere.

Throw in the fact that Trentonlf 'felt' a scan, yet Sage felt nothing at all (ok, different people, but inconsistent), and we have a couple of possibilities..

Someone is lying out of these three, or

Telika likes to throw inconsistencies and red herrings into the mix, which makes an already hard job hunting scum into a nearly impossible one.

Survivor claim is fairly possible and is quite in line with Sage's play.
It is also fairly decent claim for mafia, though.
It alaso makes sense at is is quite easy role to add and not disturb balance much and we know the game was expanded just before start.

Unfortunately for Sage, it is not much safe for town to keep survivor to endgame. Despite what they usualy claim, they mostly care for themselves and can easily turn against town to ensure themselves win. Because of it it would be best if Sage was shot at night if there is someone to do it. (Here is your cue to accuse me of directing PR but it is standard procedure)

The notification thing with trent and Sage I must consider more. Could be just because different nature of action performed against them, but it's really hard to tell.
Flavour cop is usual mafia role here but town one isn't unheard of.
The thing is, because of my private informations, I am led to believe/suspect that both town and mafia have some scanning role.

You quoted me and yet you neglected the second sentence?

But to answer your question - we had a flavor cop last game and he was mafia. So far 100% of the flavor cops I have witnessed were mafia, hence my question :)

I find statistics based on 1 entry highly inaccurate. LOL

1. Believe me or not I can not change that, but I have not lied. I have already explained this so many times.

2. As I have already said I have no role, have never hinted at a role.


Why is it obvious I was not scanned by a flavor cop? Last game there was a town cop (Robb) and a mafia cop (budejovice), pretty likely it's the same this game. So if Hijack is town then whoever the mafia cop is scanned me, and whoever that is should speak up to clarify, but if Hijack is scum (and I don't think he is) then the town cop scanned me, and whoever that is should keep quiet if this is the case ;)

If this day ends in my lynch, and if it clears up this confusion surrounding what happened with me that is ok with me, I hope you and Krypsyn are shortly behind me on the lynch as I think you two are the real scum here.

I'll state again for the last time, I have not lied at any point about what happened to me at night. I have not lied that I am town and have no role.

Now that all this claiming has gone on here recently could everyone please evaluate again who they believe is scum and list them so we can get on the same page. After we all find some common ground we can list our reasonings as to why we find the person scummy and decide if that is where we should go with the lynch. Otherwise this day 2 is going to go to the end of the time frame with everyone confused as hell. I am not saying let's rush this and lynch someone either.

My list

Krypsyn
Dedo
Sage

I'm sorry. I misunderstood. In that case, I believe I already know your stance about Flubbucket.

That's OK, I don't either.

I think I can help you there.
Hint: "I am spaceship".

We are spaceships, not people. A doctor in this game does not treat people's illnesses, it protects spaceships, which fits nicely with CSPVG's explanation of his being an escort ship.

On the other hand, a survivor ship would probably be one that collects survivors and as such would probably need a hospital to treat the wounded.

But that's obviously only in hindsight. I can understand HijacK's confusion, if he's telling the truth.

I think Sage's flavour makes a lot of sense. The ship is just picking up survivors and doesn't really care what side wins as long as the survivors stay alive.

I'm inclined to believe Sage based on that she made her neutral claim before HijacK told us what info he got from her. Unless she knew that she appeared to others as a neutral, why not just claim town?
I also still believe that trent is mark II vanilla. The question is if a mafia would want to get that kind of attention unto himself, first with the semi-claim and then with the reveal he got scanned during the Night. I'd think not, but I still don't understand the inconsistency between the 2 flavors.

I agree.

You directed possible town power roles, so that is less than good, but I do agree that it is often the right course of action. I just don't like telegraphing that stuff. Uncertainty on night actions is good. So, there is the obligatory hand-slap.

As for the rest of it, I am still processing it to some extent, however a couple questinos occurred to me:

1) "Bloodeyes" I sort of understand for a rescue ship, but "Redfingers" for a flavor cop? Is there a reference I am missing, or is there something in your role PM that explains this, HijacK?

2) What is your role name, Sage103082? I saw where HijacK described your ship, but if you described your role anywhere, I must have missed it.

EBWOP

Oh, I did miss it Sage, I guess. Is your role name "Neutral Survivor", nothing else? I guess I am just confused because there seems to be a disconnect between what you are saying and what HijacK is saying.

You say you are an "extraction ship". Does this mean that it was for you personal extraction, or is it for the extraction of other ships? From what you say, it seems like the former (since you are just a "Survivor"?). However, from what HijacK says, it seems like the latter, since you have a "retrieval, transport, support, and field hospital".

From Sage's post 1506: "No I have no doctor abilities at all. I didn't even know my ship lacks maneuvering skills."

I don't understand what HijacK says about scan, given this. One of them seems to not be telling the whole truth, unless I am missing something.

If it seems like I am confused, it is because I am.

-----------

While I am waiting for the 10 minutes to be up:

...and then HijacK claims town flavor cop. My brain hurts.

Logging in this morning... no real new developments since I went to bed, but there were certainly enough in the evening hours.

I will have lots of thoughts to organize, but I have one quick question: When did we decide there was a mafia flavor cop in the game?

Until I can sort everything out:

Unvote HijacK

I know! That is why I'm asking the rest of the people here, who have more experience that me :) Once again, I'm not accusing you of anything.


We are running in circles here. I can't and won't take your own "I'm innocent" word with nothing else to prove it. I'm not excluding the possibility that you may really be what you say you are, but so far your word is all there is and it this game, under these circumstances that's not enough. Sorry.


After the latest development my list looks something like this:


CSPVG - Town Doctor. No one counter claimed so far and if the real Doctor is out there and is keeping their mouth shut - shame on you!
Darko - strong Town. No change from my original standing here.
Mrkgnao - leaning Town (his scum hunting in the last couple of days seems to have been watered down a bit, but not enough to put them with the neutrals yet)

Sage - Neutral Survivor. Same as with HijacK. Quick question here: are Survivors usually neutral? I don't like the idea of wasting a lynch on her, but I see why keeping her around isn't helpful.

Robbeasy - Neutral to Town. No change from last time.
HijacK - ??? Flavor Cop.
yogsloth - Neutral. Not sure if leaning to Town anymore or not. No idea anymore since as of late he hasn't said something to be happy about or frown upon.
Krypsyn - Neutral to scum. No change from last time.

Vitek - leaning scum. He made some pro-town moves around CPSVG's claim, but this may have been just to look good and consistent. Still don't trust the guy.
trentonlf - leaning scum. I really want to believe his constant claims that he's on our side, but unfortunately I can't...


All of this is as interesting as it is confusing. I don't know what else to say right now, so my vote stays with trent.