By suspicion, I'd rank them Robbeasy, then Vitek, then trentonlf.
But for voting, I'd rank them Vitek, then trentonlf, then Robbeasy, taking into account other people's lists. I see no point for a minority vote in this kind of game.

What about some of your own input instead of just recapitulating previous events?

So, we have jesters now? Why is this even a thing? As far as I know the jester's winning condition is not mutually exclusive with our own (and mafia's for that matter). We are playing to win, not prevent others from doing so (especially when their victory doesn't prevent ours). Even though Vitek and I are at each other's throats I have to say I'm with him on this one - we should not focus our attention in this direction, nothing beneficial can come out of it.

With that said, my last reads list hasn't changed at all. Nothing really interesting has happened to shake it up in some way.
I currently have my vote on Vitek and even though I don't really want to change right now, I would, if we are pressed by the deadline or the there is a decent wagon going for another person I see as scummy.

Even though D2 has been going of for pretty long now without any actual result, other than multiple 1:1 showdowns, some of which resulted in OMGUS votes, we do still have a fair amount of time, so I believe we should not rush things just for the sake of lynching someone.

Let's move to the man of the hour - Krypsyn. Some people painted his behavior as weird. I'm not sure I see where this comes from, but I haven't played with him before so I can't compare. I would say mrkgnao is our best asset here, since they were the werewolf team in #22 and they managed to win without losing a single member (right?).

@mrkgnao, did you see something that stood out in his play style back then, than can be looked for now? Do you see something else noteworthy now? What is you opinion on the temporary inactivity on Krypsyn's side?

I don't think anyone was talking jesters. It was just a theoretical discussion.

Well, there was just the two us, but yes, we both survived.

Game #22 did offer me some insight into Krypsyn's gameplay because unlike almost any other game (as I abruptly learned to my surprise during game #23) we were allowed to talk at any time, not only at night, which enabled us to analyse things as they occurred and comment on them in real time. It was a good tutorial for me, it being my first game. My experience of him was only as mafia, but I understand from others (and from himself in the game #22 PM thread) that his town play is pretty much identical. Vitek and Robbeasy could probably corroborate or not.

I hope you don't mind me revealing this, Krypsyn. I won't mention anything about our romantic interlude. Oops.

I would say that the type of posts (long, well researched, compelling), the level of aggressiveness (fluctuating and potentially flaring at times), and the current frequency of posting (with longish gaps between posts) are very characteristic.

The past lurking was obviously out of the ordinary, as he himself admitted. I see no reason to doubt him when he says it's related to real and crusading life. That said, both scum and town have real life.

I was surprised when he listed Darko, but mainly because I thought of Darko as very town so far. I don't have anything to compare this to, because in game #22 we just picked the easy targets (SentinelWolf, very newbie; HijacK, in his trolling identity; amok, who played scummy enough; GDW, if you can consider him a target at all). I don't think there are easy targets in this game.

What I found weird is the speed with which he switched his votes between Darko and Vitek and back again. I don't remember something like that in game #22, where he mostly stuck to one target. I didn't go back to check but I seem to remember him unvoting only once (his vote on me). Since he implicitly dismissed my guess that this might be some kind of trap, I'm basically left with two naive options:

1) He's town and suspects Vitek and Darko (this is Darko's option (a), I believe).
2) He's mafia and has some plan which I as yet cannot divine (this is Darko's option (f), I believe).
All the other options Darko listed in #1160 do not sound too convincing to me.

Regardless of which it is, I am pretty certain that he is in control of his posts and is not acting rashly.

Is this a fair summary, Krypsyn?

Fair enough. At least as far as the Game #22 analysis goes.

Oh, really? Is that so? Then riddle me this, "genius theorist": If I bussed adalia on accident, why in your original theorist post compare me to a ruthless bridge player who bussed adalia because he slipped?
Do you even realize what you're saying? You're just changing your theories on the fly, which is beyond suspicious.

Alright. We have exactly 2 weeks to come up with something solid and find a scum. I'm getting bored going with this slow flow here, waiting and waiting for something like adalia did, so I'm stopping this waste of time and engaging in a hunt. I will come up with the various questions that have been going through my mind and debate several of my theories and plans of how to catch scum either today or later in the afternoon/evening tomorrow, depending on how much time I have and how fast I organize my strategy.
This being said, I want to see an organized reads list from everyone who hasn't posted one in the last 72 hours.

I'm finally online, but have far less time that I had hoped. I will try to fit in everything tonight; if not it will have to wait until tomorrow.


As I stated, I've moved on from this effort for the day. Simple ego, however, does make me want to point out that my original post (here) says this:

“HijacK is that guy. He may not be the best bridge player in the room, but he’s the best at this table, and he’s going to let you know it every single card that hits the table. Even if it’s his own partner, he’s going to rip somebody a new one for every sub-optimal play, because he just can’t help it. The math is right there in front of him… why can’t you see it, you halfwit cretins? I think it’s entirely possible he bussed adalia…without meaning to.”

Italics preserved from the original. As you can see, absolutely no change in theory. Not sure why you are trying to convince others that my theory changed, and why that should be "suspicious", when anyone can read the language is nearly identical. You can read the rest of the original post if you like for more details.

That said...

Up next will be some thoughts on Krypsyn, who asked for them.

Yeap, went back to the post and re-read it. Not buying it. Reading the post again actually made me more suspicious of you. The language does not fit. Contradictory and utter hogwash. It's trying to say something, but it's like an annoying filler that contradicts with the canon. Definitely not buying it.

So… Krypsyn.

I am one of the ones who finds Krypsyn’s play “weird”, although that’s probably not the word I would use. Perhaps… “calculated to unknown end” would be better.

I do want to say that his posts are always enjoyable to read, and regardless of alignment, I think this game is better off for having him in it. What’s the point to all of this if we do not have fun – and he makes it more fun. At least he’s certainly made this more of a brain bubble-gum chew since he showed back up again in this game. 

I’d like to start, actually, with his analysis of the adalia lynch wagon here. I agree pretty completely with points on positions one (explains well why I have trouble voting for Robb at this point), two, three, six and seven. I see position one, two and three as being inherently pro-town given the flip of scum, and six and seven as being ambivalent. With no heat on anyone else, after five votes, adalia’s goose was already cooked, so anybody could slide on afterward.

However, I feel that the fourth position is the most likely for scum to have jumped on. With two votes, a new wagon could easily start and change the lynchee. With three… not so much. I agree with Krysyn’s general idea that the third vote is the keystone. Once it was cast, and with no other candidates forthcoming, that’s the ideal place for scum to place a vote. Two players cast that vote simultaneously… trent and Krypsyn himself.

I’m not bothered by Krypsyn voting in this position; I’m bothered by him not calling attention in his wagon-analysis post that he acknowledges it as a highly scum-likely position to be in. Instead, he glosses right over it by saying:

He could have been more direct about the fact that he, himself, was in the single most scum-likely spot on the wagon.

That said, this is only one point, and not enough to build any kind of case.

Once we get to his read post here (and continued two posts later), I find myself amicably agreeing with nearly everything. I disagree on Vitek to some degree, but everything else is pretty one-two-three common sense and reasonable. Until he gets to Darko. If you re-read those two long posts, Darko, the guy he makes his case against and promptly votes for, gets the least amount of screen time. The one he wants to convince us to lynch… gets the least amount of analysis.

Here’s the sum total of what he says on Darko:

I read all three of the referenced posts and simply did not get it. I don’t see what he’s talking about here. But, fair enough, let’s say with experience and talent he sees things I do not, and believes those referenced posts to be scum-worthy.

Here’s where the crazy train goes off the rails: At the time of his vote, I believe there were already six different players with votes to their name. I keep trying to think of a pro-town reason to build a wagon for a player that quite literally nobody had under consideration under such circumstances, and I can find none. Not only that, but it’s so obviously a confusing, muddling play to make, that it had to have been calculated. I just do not know why.

He quickly changes his vote to Vitek – for what literally appears to be no reason. Then just as quickly changes it back to Darko… again for some cryptic reason. (Dragon points? Barbed wire?) He makes no effort at all to explain his changing vote, and certainly makes no effort to convince others to vote as he has.
This is not a scum overtly trying to confuse the game – we were there already. This is designed for some other purpose. I feel he was trying to pull some quick votes to him, and he certainly seems to be excited that he’s succeeded, and has put zero effort into defending himself.

I would really, really love to know what the pro-town angle is on this, because I don’t see it. We’re being bated somehow, and I’m not sure rushing in to vote here is wise… especially given the number of players voicing their affirmation that there is nothing unusual about this play. Perhaps someone else could explain the end game here to me?

Sage-

This will be a short one. Sage is the only player left in the game that has been on my “leaning scum” list from the beginning, and hasn’t moved. I continue to feel she is allowing herself to be bullied – saying and doing what even only one or two other players want her to do. Every other player here has taken heat for jumping out and doing something and refusing to apologize for it. (Some of us have apologized for some things, though, ha!) Sage says little, and what little she says, she backs off from quickly.

She voted for me (so of course, that makes me pay closer attention), but never really explained why. She certainly never attempted to persuade anybody else to agree with her… or at least, not until other players like dedo and HijacK dragged it out of her!

All this adds up to me of someone playing cautious far beyond what is sensible… or at least town-leaning. It reads like scum simply not sure how to act.

Nevertheless, I recognize there is not going to be any successful wagon drawn for Sage today. Even though she appears on multiple “leaning scum” lists, there just isn’t enough compelling evidence beyond gut feelings. Not where there are so many other, more… flavorful targets about, determined to compete to see who can get themselves lynched first.

Faceplaming myself at all the typos in the posts above. Sorry everybody.

Quick notes on other players, and how I am leaning, with no further gradations:

Mrk (town) Even when pushed, by me or others, responds with simplicity. Latched on to his (relatively unpopular) target won't let go actually gets me town points, even if I think he's off base on this read.

Darko (town) Krypsyn's accusations are bewildering. Wish Darko were a little more assertive this game, and didn't get so quickly OMGUS mesmerized by Krypsyn, but I can't find much fault here.

Robb (town) Not happy with every post, and not sold on all his reasoning for his current vote, but I just cannot believe his Day 1 behavior adds up to scum. He could stand up and shout "I AM ZE SKUMZ" and I would have a hard time believing it. Until there's compelling reason (and neither mrk nor CSPVG have given it to me), I doubt there will be much to change my mind.

dedo (town) Generally asking good questions, catching some of the same things I do. I keep going back and isolating his posts trying to find something to object to. Not sold on his vote for Vitek - want to hear more from him on this.

If any of these four are scum, I'm going to have a fantastic laugh. Love this game.

Vitek (neutral) By far my favorite player to "listen" to. Love his sense of humor. Wish he would post more just for the laughs. It makes me aware, however, than I have to be careful not to confuse my enthusiasm at his humor and style for towniness. I'm deliberatey not going to say too much here, because I believe Vitek is one of the ones we need to pay closer attention to, and I am pretty much totally out of time tonight.

trent (neutral) Congrats, trent, you got a promotion! You're officially off my scumlist. I beat on you and beat on you, and couldn't find any actual cracks in your defense. Your play is still bizarre, and sometimes way off point, so I'm not putting you on my town list... but I also don't see a wagon in your immediate future.

Sage (scum) see above.

CSPVG (scum) Will take a longer, more drawn-out post, which I will have to do tomorrow. Barring major developments, this is where my vote is most likely to land. I will try to explain why carefully before I do so.

Krypsyn (gone rogue) see above.

HijacK (also gone rogue) Makes a "risky play" nobody can understand, gives only cryptic reasons that he will fully reveal later depending on... I forget. It doesn't matter. I accused him of scum behavior, and he's "not buying" my reasoning. LOL. Anyway.

OK, over and out for the evening. CSPVG analysis to come sometime tomorrow when I have time.

I'm not sure who you are referring to, but if that's me I don't really have anything else to add other than what I wrote so far. If you have some specific questions, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer them.

Could we please, for the love of candy, stop romanticizing posts so much? It was fun to do it once, but doing it every reads list makes me cringe and yell in my own mind "Get to the point already!"

This being said: Time to cast a vote!

I have something like 10 minutes before I have to get ready and leave for school, so if you have any questions or yada, yada, you can ask and I will answer in about 9 hours when I literally just get back from school. For now I will make use of brevity and try to be short and clear in speech like the Spartans were.

Vote CSPVG

Why? I always said I only vote when I deem it necessarily. Having something like 1 vote on 5 different people and nothing else deems this necessarily. But why did I pick CSPVG out of the entire flock? Here's the thing. His posts so far appeared scummy, with some of them looking interestingly towny, but the thing is, he hasn't posted enough. No, no. I'm not lynching him because he's a lurker. That's not the reason. However, that is the cause of the reason. I'm speaking out of experience here. Game #23. I had a pretty good idea of who was scum from day 1. I was sure about trent. However, during the entire game, until his replacement, I could never pin point Quadralien on an actual axis or alignment. Let's talk KOTOR here, now that the game was released on GOG. You have a basic axis of alignment Scum - Neutral - Town. Now you probably have every player somewhere on that axis. Well, I do not. In game #23 I was never able to put Quadralien anywhere on that axis because he simply wasn't posting enough. A few scummy looking posts or town looking posts are not enough to actually pin point someone on that list. And the same is happening to CSPVG. What have I learned in game #23? Well, besides the fact Quadr was scum, he was probably the best player to date at staying off the hook. Not being to catch him with anything, neither towny nor scumy, simply because there is not much you can extract.

CSPVG made some votes, game some shady reasons, became more active after our prodding etc. Looks scummy, but so did his actions in game #23, and look at that game! He was town! Albeit he posted some more in that game, at least this is my impression, haven't really gone back and re-read the game. Back in game #23 I actually put him as leaning scum. Never really strongly made a case to myself that he is scum, but behavior was suspicious like now.

So why even vote for him? Because someone who stays off the hook and you have no idea about is more dangerous than someone you can put on an alignment axis and simply monitor for the rest of their game. Had quadralien player the rest of game #23, I would have probably had no idea what he was. Playstyle is too shady. Too incognito. You can put an alignment on him. And the exact thing is happening with CSPVG this game.

Furthermore, CSPVG is pretty much the key to all my theories and plans. His status will dictate how I act from this point forward in the game. However, I will note this for all of you and you better keep this in your head, because if anyone says otherwise I will make a strong point against they are clearly scum, whether true or not. I would never lynch someone solely based such a reason.